From andyw at pobox.com Wed Aug 6 09:50:27 2003 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:50 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hennepin County Libraries - wireless access. Message-ID: <20030806095027.A21649@florence.linkmargin.com> I hear that Hennepin County Libraries are testing wireless internet access. Currently the only library supporting it is Ridgedale - testing there is slated to run through September, with plans to subsequently roll out support at Southdale and Maple Grove. Brookdale and Eden Prairie are planned to have it when their new facilities open sometime in 2004. The roll-out will continue through 2004 to other libraries in the Hennepin County system. It looks like our friends at SymetriQ (known lurkers on this list :)) are handling this for HCL. This is (more) good news for wireless activity in the metro area. In addition, I have also noticed that local Starbucks are starting to get the T-Mobile treatment, and that Surf-Thing are now touting their WiFi connectivity on their spash screens.. -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From jkotek at madgenius.com Wed Aug 6 10:20:37 2003 From: jkotek at madgenius.com (Jon Kotek) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:51 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Wierd problems with Linksys Wireless G cards In-Reply-To: <20030806095027.A21649@florence.linkmargin.com> References: <20030806095027.A21649@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <20030806152037.M9508@madgenius.com> I am doing some work for a small company that had a guy install Linksys Wireless G hardware (router and PCI cards) I have 2 machines (win98se and XP pro) that when the cards were installed they could browse the network and ping the internet but IE,Outlook,Yahoo messenger would not work, very strange!! Anybody have problems like this with this hardware? (I am planning on replacing the gear anyway) Thanks Jon Kotek Madgenius.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From dieman at ringworld.org Wed Aug 6 10:29:25 2003 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier - dieman) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:51 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Wierd problems with Linksys Wireless G cards In-Reply-To: <20030806152037.M9508@madgenius.com> Message-ID: I've had problems where some versions of the TI and Realtek wireless drivers ill refuse to associate with our cisco based 802.11b network. Usually when I upgrade the device driver on the client machine and tweak some settings (turn off 2x/4x modes on TI cards) they just start working. The realtek gigafast card had a driver from 7/30/03 that works great. Does WECA force compliance testing of products, or to companies just promise to follow wifi standards? On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Jon Kotek wrote: > > I am doing some work for a small company that had a guy install Linksys > Wireless G hardware (router and PCI cards) I have 2 machines (win98se and XP > pro) that when the cards were installed they could browse the network and > ping the internet but IE,Outlook,Yahoo messenger would not work, very > strange!! > > Anybody have problems like this with this hardware? (I am planning on > replacing the gear anyway) > > > Thanks > > Jon Kotek > Madgenius.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > -- Scott Dier KC0OBS http://www.ringworld.org/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From narnold at arnoldweb.net Wed Aug 6 10:33:11 2003 From: narnold at arnoldweb.net (Nathan Arnold) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:51 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Wierd problems with Linksys Wireless G cards Message-ID: <14A0C0DD81D9B141BB424C0A862501C860B4@ARNOLD01.home.arnoldweb.net> Could this be a DNS issue? Are you pinging domains on the net or the actual IP address? -----Original Message----- From: Jon Kotek [mailto:jkotek@madgenius.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:21 AM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org I am doing some work for a small company that had a guy install Linksys Wireless G hardware (router and PCI cards) I have 2 machines (win98se and XP pro) that when the cards were installed they could browse the network and ping the internet but IE,Outlook,Yahoo messenger would not work, very strange!! Anybody have problems like this with this hardware? (I am planning on replacing the gear anyway) Thanks Jon Kotek Madgenius.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From jkotek at madgenius.com Wed Aug 6 14:02:44 2003 From: jkotek at madgenius.com (Jon Kotek) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:51 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Wierd problems with Linksys Wireless G cards In-Reply-To: <14A0C0DD81D9B141BB424C0A862501C860B4@ARNOLD01.home.arnoldweb.net> References: <14A0C0DD81D9B141BB424C0A862501C860B4@ARNOLD01.home.arnoldweb.net> Message-ID: <20030806190244.M96164@madgenius.com> I can ping name or ip (I thought that orginally as well) Jon On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:33:11 -0500, Nathan Arnold wrote > Could this be a DNS issue? Are you pinging domains on the net or the > actual IP address? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Kotek [mailto:jkotek@madgenius.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:21 AM > To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > I am doing some work for a small company that had a guy install Linksys > Wireless G hardware (router and PCI cards) I have 2 machines > (win98se and XP pro) that when the cards were installed they could > browse the network and ping the internet but IE,Outlook,Yahoo > messenger would not work, very strange!! > > Anybody have problems like this with this hardware? (I am planning > on replacing the gear anyway) > > Thanks > > Jon Kotek > Madgenius.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mail at RobWentworth.com Thu Aug 7 21:59:04 2003 From: mail at RobWentworth.com (Rob Wentworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:51 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Wierd problems with Linksys Wireless G cards References: <14A0C0DD81D9B141BB424C0A862501C860B4@ARNOLD01.home.arnoldweb.net> <20030806190244.M96164@madgenius.com> Message-ID: <007b01c35d59$0793b8e0$9801a8c0@max> These problem programs are probably using your "Internet Options" settings (from Control Panel or IE). Check for proxy settings turned on or similar problems. Also, check which protocols are bound to what devices (Network settings). I have also seen similar problems if both a LAN card and a wireless card installed. I turned off the LAN card (red X) in Device Manager to fix it. Windows is not consistent in which device to use for Internet access (may change when rebooting). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Kotek" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:02 PM Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Wierd problems with Linksys Wireless G cards > I can ping name or ip (I thought that orginally as well) > > Jon > > > > On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:33:11 -0500, Nathan Arnold wrote > > Could this be a DNS issue? Are you pinging domains on the net or the > > actual IP address? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jon Kotek [mailto:jkotek@madgenius.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:21 AM > > To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > > > I am doing some work for a small company that had a guy install Linksys > > Wireless G hardware (router and PCI cards) I have 2 machines > > (win98se and XP pro) that when the cards were installed they could > > browse the network and ping the internet but IE,Outlook,Yahoo > > messenger would not work, very strange!! > > > > Anybody have problems like this with this hardware? (I am planning > > on replacing the gear anyway) > > > > Thanks > > > > Jon Kotek > > Madgenius.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota > > http://www.tcwug.org > > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From jkotek at madgenius.com Fri Aug 8 07:46:46 2003 From: jkotek at madgenius.com (Jon Kotek) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:51 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Wierd problems with Linksys Wireless G cards In-Reply-To: <007b01c35d59$0793b8e0$9801a8c0@max> References: <14A0C0DD81D9B141BB424C0A862501C860B4@ARNOLD01.home.arnoldweb.net> <20030806190244.M96164@madgenius.com> <007b01c35d59$0793b8e0$9801a8c0@max> Message-ID: <20030808124646.M33891@madgenius.com> Thanks, I figured it out, seems the guy before me installed WinProxy on this machine which was of course messing up the internet access. Sometimes things are simple. Jon On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 21:59:04 -0500, Rob Wentworth wrote > These problem programs are probably using your "Internet Options" settings > > (from Control Panel or IE). Check for proxy settings turned on or similar > problems. Also, check which protocols are bound to what devices (Network > settings). > > I have also seen similar problems if both a LAN card and a wireless card > installed. I turned off the LAN card (red X) in Device Manager to > fix it. Windows is not consistent in which device to use for > Internet access (may change when rebooting). > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jon Kotek" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 2:02 PM > Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Wierd problems with Linksys Wireless G cards > > > I can ping name or ip (I thought that orginally as well) > > > > Jon > > > > > > > > On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:33:11 -0500, Nathan Arnold wrote > > > Could this be a DNS issue? Are you pinging domains on the net or the > > > actual IP address? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Jon Kotek [mailto:jkotek@madgenius.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:21 AM > > > To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > > > > > I am doing some work for a small company that had a guy install Linksys > > > Wireless G hardware (router and PCI cards) I have 2 machines > > > (win98se and XP pro) that when the cards were installed they could > > > browse the network and ping the internet but IE,Outlook,Yahoo > > > messenger would not work, very strange!! > > > > > > Anybody have problems like this with this hardware? (I am planning > > > on replacing the gear anyway) > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Jon Kotek > > > Madgenius.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > > Minnesota > > > http://www.tcwug.org > > > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > > Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > > http://www.tcwug.org > > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From beprod44 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 8 21:03:52 2003 From: beprod44 at hotmail.com (edw roddy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:51 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] messinger has a firewall/nat operating! Message-ID: I have a usr router 8022/with a printer server...hp officejet r40...and 2 dell lattitude p3 850 laptops. I can't use messenger/net meeting, since i had this wireless network setrup...Oh! i have 2 orinoco wifi cards...1 dell is 98se other is win 2000. My intel create/share video cameras have the same problem...Intel june 1 stopped supporting the directory and suggested net meeting...logitech must have bought their camera hardware biz. Thanks for any help! be _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at stratvantage.com Fri Aug 8 21:42:53 2003 From: mellsworth at stratvantage.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:51 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] PC and Mac on Airport with password Message-ID: <074601c35e1f$f0511a70$0100007f@stratlap2> Does anybody know the secret of getting a PC and a Mac to share an Airport AP (an old one, one of the first) with security on? I tried giving the AP a 13-character (104 bit) password, and the Mac worked fine, but the PC didn?t. Both worked fine without the password. The documentation is maddeningly brief. TIA for any help. Mike Ellsworth StratVantage Consulting, LLC Helping Successful Companies Make Winning Technology Decisions 8273 Westwood Hills Curve St. Louis Park, MN 55426 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiFiGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030808/068c0879/attachment.htm From andyw at pobox.com Fri Aug 8 21:53:33 2003 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:51 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] PC and Mac on Airport with password In-Reply-To: <074601c35e1f$f0511a70$0100007f@stratlap2>; from mellsworth@stratvantage.com on Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 09:42:53PM -0500 References: <074601c35e1f$f0511a70$0100007f@stratlap2> Message-ID: <20030808215333.A30012@florence.linkmargin.com> Mike Ellsworth wrote: > > Does anybody know the secret of getting a PC and a Mac to share an > Airport AP (an old one, one of the first) with security on? I tried > giving the AP a 13-character (104 bit) password, and the Mac worked > fine, but the PC didn't. Both worked fine without the password. The > documentation is maddeningly brief. I thought some of the early airports could only do 40bit WEP (they had an orinoco silver card inside.) Not sure why the Mac would work in that case, but it's so often the case that Macs "just work", isn't it ? Try cutting back to a 40-bit key and see if that helps. -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at stratvantage.com Fri Aug 8 21:58:13 2003 From: mellsworth at stratvantage.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:51 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] PC and Mac on Airport with password In-Reply-To: <20030808215333.A30012@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <075301c35e22$13dd11e0$0100007f@stratlap2> Andy, Yeah, I tried a 40-bit key first, but WinXP seemed to want 104 bits (I seem to hazily remember - this was last week). Anyway, I'll try 40 again. Thanks. Mike Ellsworth StratVantage Consulting, LLC Helping Successful Companies Make Winning Technology Decisions 8273 Westwood Hills Curve St. Louis Park, MN 55426 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiFiGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Andy Warner Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 9:54 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] PC and Mac on Airport with password Mike Ellsworth wrote: > > Does anybody know the secret of getting a PC and a Mac to share an > Airport AP (an old one, one of the first) with security on? I tried > giving the AP a 13-character (104 bit) password, and the Mac worked > fine, but the PC didn't. Both worked fine without the password. The > documentation is maddeningly brief. I thought some of the early airports could only do 40bit WEP (they had an orinoco silver card inside.) Not sure why the Mac would work in that case, but it's so often the case that Macs "just work", isn't it ? Try cutting back to a 40-bit key and see if that helps. -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From andyw at pobox.com Fri Aug 8 22:05:37 2003 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:51 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] PC and Mac on Airport with password In-Reply-To: <075301c35e22$13dd11e0$0100007f@stratlap2>; from mellsworth@stratvantage.com on Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 09:58:13PM -0500 References: <20030808215333.A30012@florence.linkmargin.com> <075301c35e22$13dd11e0$0100007f@stratlap2> Message-ID: <20030808220537.B30012@florence.linkmargin.com> Mike Ellsworth wrote: > Andy, > > Yeah, I tried a 40-bit key first, but WinXP seemed to want 104 bits (I seem > to hazily remember - this was last week). Anyway, I'll try 40 again. Ah, the joys of the XP wireless wizard. Helping move 802.11 back into the stone age. You just have to find the right way to beat the wizard into submission, so it stops helping you, methinks. What's the wireless card in the XP box ? -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From poptix at poptix.net Sat Aug 9 02:04:52 2003 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:51 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] PC and Mac on Airport with password In-Reply-To: <075301c35e22$13dd11e0$0100007f@stratlap2> References: <20030808215333.A30012@florence.linkmargin.com> <075301c35e22$13dd11e0$0100007f@stratlap2> Message-ID: <20030809070452.GS9224@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 09:58:13PM -0500, Mike Ellsworth wrote: > Andy, > > Yeah, I tried a 40-bit key first, but WinXP seemed to want 104 bits (I seem > to hazily remember - this was last week). Anyway, I'll try 40 again. > > Thanks. Input the key in hex, not the phrase. Older non-spec-compliant hardware is known to generate the actual wep keys differently from the same passphrase as for windows, just enter 13 digits for a 40 bit key, it'll figure it out. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From dieman at ringworld.org Sat Aug 9 03:03:05 2003 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier - dieman) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:51 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: PC and Mac on Airport with password In-Reply-To: <20030808220537.B30012@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Andy Warner wrote: > Ah, the joys of the XP wireless wizard. Helping move 802.11 back > into the stone age. You just have to find the right way to beat Amen. I beat that thing at least twice weekly into submission for users. I'm allmost happy cisco has a utility that can be used insead of that wizard-ui-insanity. -- Scott Dier KC0OBS http://www.ringworld.org/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From beprod44 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 9 09:20:52 2003 From: beprod44 at hotmail.com (edw roddy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:52 2005 Subject: Fwd: [TCWUG] messinger has a firewall/nat operating! Message-ID: >From: "edw roddy" >Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org >To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org >Subject: [TCWUG] messinger has a firewall/nat operating! >Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 21:03:52 -0500 > >I have a usr router 8022/with a printer server...hp officejet r40...and 2 >dell lattitude p3 850 laptops. I can't use messenger/net meeting, since i >had this wireless network setrup...Oh! i have 2 orinoco wifi cards...1 dell >is 98se other is win 2000. My intel create/share video cameras have the >same problem...Intel june 1 stopped supporting the directory and suggested >net meeting...logitech must have bought their camera hardware biz. Thanks >for any help! be > >_________________________________________________________________ >Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >Minnesota >http://www.tcwug.org >tcwug-list@tcwug.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mgenelin at ieee.umn.edu Sat Aug 9 20:08:41 2003 From: mgenelin at ieee.umn.edu (Mattew Genelin) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:52 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] PC and Mac on Airport with password In-Reply-To: <20030809070452.GS9224@techmonkeys.org> References: <20030808215333.A30012@florence.linkmargin.com> <075301c35e22$13dd11e0$0100007f@stratlap2> <20030809070452.GS9224@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20030810010841.GA1794@ieee.umn.edu> Hey gang- Yep. I second Matt's opinion here with my experience: A mac didn't generate the same key for our 64-bit passphraise we used on an Apple Airport. It seems that my Linksys software didn't generate the same key as the Mac, and when I tried Dlink's key gen, it agreeded with the Linksys. Go figure. Regards, ---Matthew Genelin--- On Sat, Aug 09, 2003 at 02:04:52AM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 09:58:13PM -0500, Mike Ellsworth wrote: > > Andy, > > > > Yeah, I tried a 40-bit key first, but WinXP seemed to want 104 bits (I seem > > to hazily remember - this was last week). Anyway, I'll try 40 again. > > > > Thanks. > > Input the key in hex, not the phrase. > > Older non-spec-compliant hardware is known to generate the actual wep keys > differently from the same passphrase > > as for windows, just enter 13 digits for a 40 bit key, it'll figure it out. > > -- > Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified > http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list -- _ _ __ ---//\/\atthew (|_;enelin--- ---------------------------------------------------------------- - Matthew Genelin (612) 636-2472 (cell) - - Engineering Student (651) 636-1842 (parents) - - University of Minnesota, TC n0ynt@amsat.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------- "A person without a sense of humor is like a wagon without springs, jolted by every pebble in the road." -- Henry Ward Beecher _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mgenelin at ieee.umn.edu Sat Aug 9 20:14:42 2003 From: mgenelin at ieee.umn.edu (mgenelin@ieee.umn.edu) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:52 2005 Subject: Fwd: [TCWUG] messinger has a firewall/nat operating! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3251.64.163.28.232.1060478082.squirrel@www.ieee.umn.edu> Hi Be- I am sorry, but can you condence your ideas into complete sentences that are in the form of a question? It would help quite a bit. Last time I checked, Netmeeting is not supported anymore. But then again, I am a wireless guru, not a general PC-software helper, as most folks' on this list. :) Did you have a wireless-related question here? Regards, ---Matthew Genelin--- > > > >>From: "edw roddy" >>Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org >>To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org >>Subject: [TCWUG] messinger has a firewall/nat operating! >>Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 21:03:52 -0500 >> >>I have a usr router 8022/with a printer server...hp officejet r40...and 2 >>dell lattitude p3 850 laptops. I can't use messenger/net meeting, since >> i >>had this wireless network setrup...Oh! i have 2 orinoco wifi cards...1 >> dell >>is 98se other is win 2000. My intel create/share video cameras have the >>same problem...Intel june 1 stopped supporting the directory and >> suggested >>net meeting...logitech must have bought their camera hardware biz. >> Thanks >>for any help! be >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online >>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >>Minnesota >>http://www.tcwug.org >>tcwug-list@tcwug.org >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From paul at gilbertson.net Sat Aug 9 22:35:23 2003 From: paul at gilbertson.net (Paul Gilbertson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:52 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] PC and Mac on Airport with password In-Reply-To: <20030809170002.13414.14325.Mailman@pirate.real-time.com> Message-ID: <003101c35ef0$7159d320$9300a8c0@t20> Apple has released an Admin utility that runs on the PC and allows a user to administrate an Airport from that PC. Us that and get the XXXXXX equivalent WEP key where XXXXXX is whatever the plan language word they used, (I can't remember and I don't have an Airport nearby right now.) Put that into your PC and you're in business. If you have any questions, give me a call. Paul 952-470-5976 paul@gilbertson.net _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at stratvantage.com Sat Aug 9 22:44:35 2003 From: mellsworth at stratvantage.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:52 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] PC and Mac on Airport with password In-Reply-To: <003101c35ef0$7159d320$9300a8c0@t20> Message-ID: <078801c35ef1$b8353590$0100007f@stratlap2> Paul, Thanks for the info! I'll see if I can find the utility. Although if the utility is the equivalent of the really limited setup utility that runs on the Mac, I think the likelihood of being able to find out the key from the pass phrase is small. I couldn't find anyway to do that from the Mac. Hope this utility does it. Thanks. Mike Ellsworth StratVantage Consulting, LLC Helping Successful Companies Make Winning Technology Decisions 8273 Westwood Hills Curve St. Louis Park, MN 55426 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiFiGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Paul Gilbertson Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 10:35 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: [TCWUG] PC and Mac on Airport with password Apple has released an Admin utility that runs on the PC and allows a user to administrate an Airport from that PC. Us that and get the XXXXXX equivalent WEP key where XXXXXX is whatever the plan language word they used, (I can't remember and I don't have an Airport nearby right now.) Put that into your PC and you're in business. If you have any questions, give me a call. Paul 952-470-5976 paul@gilbertson.net _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From andyw at pobox.com Sat Aug 9 22:57:06 2003 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:52 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] PC and Mac on Airport with password In-Reply-To: <20030810010841.GA1794@ieee.umn.edu>; from mgenelin@ieee.umn.edu on Sat, Aug 09, 2003 at 08:08:41PM -0500 References: <20030808215333.A30012@florence.linkmargin.com> <075301c35e22$13dd11e0$0100007f@stratlap2> <20030809070452.GS9224@techmonkeys.org> <20030810010841.GA1794@ieee.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20030809225706.K22346@florence.linkmargin.com> Mattew Genelin wrote: > Yep. I second Matt's opinion here with my experience: A mac didn't > generate the same key for our 64-bit passphraise we used on an Apple > Airport. It seems that my Linksys software didn't generate the same key > as the Mac, and when I tried Dlink's key gen, it agreeded with the > Linksys. Go figure. I've never had a problem configuring airports or PCs with the raw hex key. I don't trust those passphrase gadgets as far as I can throw them. -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From tedr at rattei.org Sun Aug 10 00:15:53 2003 From: tedr at rattei.org (Ted Rattei) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:52 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] PC and Mac on Airport with password In-Reply-To: <074601c35e1f$f0511a70$0100007f@stratlap2> Message-ID: On Friday, August 8, 2003, at 09:42 PM, Mike Ellsworth wrote: > Does anybody know the secret of getting a PC and a Mac to share an > Airport AP (an old one, one of the first) with security on? I tried > giving the AP a 13-character (104 bit) password, and the Mac worked > fine, but the PC didn?t. Both worked fine without the password. The > documentation is maddeningly brief. If your AirPort base station is graphite in color, it can only do 40 bit WEP. If it is snow in color, then it can do 128 bit WEP. IIRC, the AirPort Admin Utility for Windows can only administer the Snow base station, as well as the AirPort Extreme 802.11g base station. I believe there is a java based configuration utility for Windows that can admin the original graphite AirPort base station. Otherwise, if you have access to a Mac, the AirPort Admin Utility can handle any of the base station models. The place to go to get the Hex equivalent is under the "Base Station" menu, "Equivalent Network Password". I am pretty sure that the password used by Macs to do WEP is not the straight Hex passphrase, but I could be mistaken. cheers! -- Ted Rattei ted@rattei.org 612-201-2393 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From trammell at el-swifto.com Sun Aug 10 00:24:06 2003 From: trammell at el-swifto.com (John J. Trammell) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:52 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] PC and Mac on Airport with password In-Reply-To: References: <074601c35e1f$f0511a70$0100007f@stratlap2> Message-ID: <20030810052406.GA11689@mail.el-swifto.com> On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 12:15:53AM -0500, Ted Rattei wrote: > If your AirPort base station is graphite in color, it can only do 40 > bit WEP. If it is snow in color, then it can do 128 bit WEP. Note to self: paint AirPort base station white. _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From benmgroup at earthlink.net Sun Aug 10 11:09:02 2003 From: benmgroup at earthlink.net (Ben Nelson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:52 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Meeting: Tuesday, Aug 12, 6:00 pm! Message-ID: Next meeting: Tuesday, August 12, 6:00 to 8:00 pm Come to hear the latest on the Loring Park project- much has been happening and more is planned. Also, we?ll have plenty of time for open discussions and general ?new? business. As usual, if anyone has something in particular they?d like to talk about, post to the list or let me know and I?ll make sure you get time at the meeting. Dunn Bros 201 3rd Avenue Minneapolis, MN 55401 612-692-8530 (on the same block as the Milwaukee Road Depot hotel and skating rink) Map and directions: http://tinyurl.com/79jt Limited parking behind the building, plenty of on-street parking near-by. -- Ben Nelson 612.685.9116 cell benmgroup@earthlink.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030810/fa89a4ea/attachment.html From beprod44 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 10 12:06:19 2003 From: beprod44 at hotmail.com (edw roddy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:52 2005 Subject: Fwd: [TCWUG] messinger has a firewall/nat operating! Message-ID: Matthew. Message that i got is as follows: Warning..your computer, ip, or network uses some type of network address translater (NAT). Some NATs prevent successful audio/video conversations! I didn't have this problem before going wireless. What do I do to fix it? Thks & Rgds, Brian >From: mgenelin@ieee.umn.edu >Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org >To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org >CC: tcwug-list@tcwug.org >Subject: Re: Fwd: [TCWUG] messinger has a firewall/nat operating! >Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 20:14:42 -0500 (CDT) > >Hi Be- > >I am sorry, but can you condence your ideas into complete sentences that >are in the form of a question? It would help quite a bit. > >Last time I checked, Netmeeting is not supported anymore. But then again, >I am a wireless guru, not a general PC-software helper, as most folks' on >this list. :) > >Did you have a wireless-related question here? > >Regards, >---Matthew Genelin--- > > > > > > > > > >>From: "edw roddy" > >>Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org > >>To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org > >>Subject: [TCWUG] messinger has a firewall/nat operating! > >>Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 21:03:52 -0500 > >> > >>I have a usr router 8022/with a printer server...hp officejet r40...and >2 > >>dell lattitude p3 850 laptops. I can't use messenger/net meeting, since > >> i > >>had this wireless network setrup...Oh! i have 2 orinoco wifi cards...1 > >> dell > >>is 98se other is win 2000. My intel create/share video cameras have the > >>same problem...Intel june 1 stopped supporting the directory and > >> suggested > >>net meeting...logitech must have bought their camera hardware biz. > >> Thanks > >>for any help! be > >> > >>_________________________________________________________________ > >>Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > >>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > >>Minnesota > >>http://www.tcwug.org > >>tcwug-list@tcwug.org > >>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota > > http://www.tcwug.org > > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >Minnesota >http://www.tcwug.org >tcwug-list@tcwug.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From andrew at azimmer.com Sun Aug 10 12:53:57 2003 From: andrew at azimmer.com (Andrew Zimmer) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:52 2005 Subject: Fwd: [TCWUG] messinger has a firewall/nat operating! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c35f68$5f633300$6501a8c0@az.local> Is the router blocking the ports required for Netmeeting and Messenger? The easiest and least secure way to fix port blocking is to put your computer in your routers DMZ. The router manual should be able to step you through that. Generally routers do not allow more than one computer in the DMZ so this would not help much if you are trying to make calls from more than one computer. You will want to configure the router to allow some ports to pass thru, Here are the ports listed for Netmeeting from http://www.microsoft.com/windows/NetMeeting/Corp/reskit/Chapter4/default .asp: 389 Internet Locator Service (ILS) TCP 522 User Location Service TCP 1503 T.120 TCP 1720 H.323 call setup TCP 1731 Audio call control TCP Here is a troubleshooting document for Messenger from Microsoft: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;324214 Good luck, Andrew > Message that i got is as follows: Warning..your computer, ip, or network > uses some type of network address translater (NAT). Some NATs prevent > successful audio/video conversations! I didn't have this problem before > going wireless. What do I do to fix it? Thks & Rgds, Brian > _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From beprod44 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 10 12:54:46 2003 From: beprod44 at hotmail.com (edw roddy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:52 2005 Subject: Fwd: [TCWUG] messinger has a firewall/nat operating! Message-ID: Andrew, Tks...I will try to change router settings. This usr8022 router/w/printer server is a challenge, sometimes RGDS, Brian >From: "Andrew Zimmer" >Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org >To: >Subject: RE: Fwd: [TCWUG] messinger has a firewall/nat operating! >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 12:53:57 -0500 > >Is the router blocking the ports required for Netmeeting and Messenger? > >The easiest and least secure way to fix port blocking is to put your >computer in your routers DMZ. The router manual should be able to step >you through that. Generally routers do not allow more than one computer >in the DMZ so this would not help much if you are trying to make calls >from more than one computer. You will want to configure the router to >allow some ports to pass thru, > >Here are the ports listed for Netmeeting from >http://www.microsoft.com/windows/NetMeeting/Corp/reskit/Chapter4/default >.asp: > >389 Internet Locator Service (ILS) TCP >522 User Location Service TCP >1503 T.120 TCP >1720 H.323 call setup TCP >1731 Audio call control TCP > > >Here is a troubleshooting document for Messenger from Microsoft: >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;324214 > >Good luck, >Andrew > > > > > Message that i got is as follows: Warning..your computer, ip, or >network > > uses some type of network address translater (NAT). Some NATs prevent > > successful audio/video conversations! I didn't have this problem >before > > going wireless. What do I do to fix it? Thks & Rgds, Brian > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >Minnesota >http://www.tcwug.org >tcwug-list@tcwug.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From poptix at poptix.net Sun Aug 10 02:31:06 2003 From: poptix at poptix.net (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:53 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] PC and Mac on Airport with password In-Reply-To: <20030810010841.GA1794@ieee.umn.edu> References: <20030808215333.A30012@florence.linkmargin.com> <075301c35e22$13dd11e0$0100007f@stratlap2> <20030809070452.GS9224@techmonkeys.org> <20030810010841.GA1794@ieee.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20030810073106.GT9224@techmonkeys.org> On Sat, Aug 09, 2003 at 08:08:41PM -0500, Mattew Genelin wrote: > Hey gang- > > Yep. I second Matt's opinion here with my experience: A mac didn't > generate the same key for our 64-bit passphraise we used on an Apple > Airport. It seems that my Linksys software didn't generate the same key > as the Mac, and when I tried Dlink's key gen, it agreeded with the > Linksys. Go figure. Because most D-Link and Linksys devices are rebadges from Global Sun Tech and use pretty much the exact same firmware, with varying HTML =) Lately Linksys has started improving the quality of their devices though, you could argue it was prompted by their purchase by Cisco > > Regards, > ---Matthew Genelin--- -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From david.blevins at visi.com Wed Aug 13 08:07:39 2003 From: david.blevins at visi.com (David Blevins) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:53 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Portable wireless hub? Message-ID: <20030813130739.B11410@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com> With your standard RJ-45 NICs, you can connect two computers directly together with a cross-over cable. Is there anything like this in the wireless world; can two computers with wireless NICs be "hooked" together without a third network device? If not, are there portable wireless hubs, etc? I basically have a situation where two people with laptops, each with wireless cards, will be traveling together and need to share data. Obviously, the cross-over cable is an option, but just wondering if there was a wireless solution. -David _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From MPatchen at chaska.net Wed Aug 13 13:10:01 2003 From: MPatchen at chaska.net (Mike Patchen) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:53 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Portable wireless hub? Message-ID: I will be out of the office from 8/13 to 8/19. If you need immediate help, please contact Brad Mayer. Thanks, Mike Patchen >>> tcwug-list 08/13/03 08:07 >>> With your standard RJ-45 NICs, you can connect two computers directly together with a cross-over cable. Is there anything like this in the wireless world; can two computers with wireless NICs be "hooked" together without a third network device? If not, are there portable wireless hubs, etc? I basically have a situation where two people with laptops, each with wireless cards, will be traveling together and need to share data. Obviously, the cross-over cable is an option, but just wondering if there was a wireless solution. -David _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From dieman at ringworld.org Wed Aug 13 13:13:03 2003 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier - dieman) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:53 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Portable wireless hub? In-Reply-To: <20030813130739.B11410@sweetums.ce1.client2.attbi.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, David Blevins wrote: > Obviously, the cross-over cable is an option, but just wondering if > there was a wireless solution. Ad-hoc networking or PAN-based bluetooth. I would go with 802.11b ad-hoc. Windows will use autoconf addresses if theres no DHCP avaliable and netbios lookups should work, i think. OSX laptops should do the same afair and use rendevous between them and in theory i think the address spaces are compatible so nbt lookups should work. -- Scott Dier KC0OBS http://www.ringworld.org/ Free USA from energy dependence, http://www.apolloalliance.org/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From nkras at visi.com Wed Aug 13 17:20:18 2003 From: nkras at visi.com (Neal Krasnoff) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:53 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Portable wireless hub? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F3AB9A2.90801@visi.com> Scott Dier - dieman wrote: >On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, David Blevins wrote: > > > >>Obviously, the cross-over cable is an option, but just wondering if >>there was a wireless solution. >> >> > >Ad-hoc networking or PAN-based bluetooth. > Yep. Ad-hoc, if your wireless cards can be configured. Otherwise you could use an rf to ethernet bridge such as the Linksys WET-11 or the D-Link DWL-810+. Neal _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From benmgroup at earthlink.net Wed Aug 13 22:03:15 2003 From: benmgroup at earthlink.net (Ben Nelson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:53 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] 8/12 Meeting Notes Message-ID: Everyone, Here?s the latest from last night?s meeting: Loring Park: We talked about the Loring Park project. MCTC is on board to provide roof space and electrical power to run a satellite to site cover the north-east end of the park. The good folks from MCTC, Neal, Andrew, Leif and and I made a visit to the roof of MCTC to pick out possible places to mount our equipment, and here are several great possibilities. Once we assemble the required gear (see below for my plea for parts), we will meet with the MCTC facilities people to decide which works best for everyone. Call for Parts: We?re looking for some components to further the Loring park project: an omni antenna and an access point. If you?ve got an extra of either of these available for extended loan or to donate, or are interested in sponsoring the purchase of same, let me know! Think of it: you?ll be sitting in the park, surfing the web, knowing you are a vital part of the operation. That?s not radiation, that?s the warm feeling of a good deed done. Outreach: Andrew been working on literature that could be distributed to the public that talks about wireless, TCWUG, and generally encourages people to get involved and set up hotspots. A question at the meeting was: by using netstumbler, or just turning on your wi-fi card, you/we can see networks and tell if they?re open or not. Also, it?s not to hard to narrow the location down to a small area. Here?s the problem: how can we contact the person running the hotspot, and either get them to list themselves as a public hotspot or help them secure their network, without, for lack of a better phrase, creeping them out totally? I?m going to post this to the list as a separate piece, as I think outreach is pretty important, and I?d like to get some other views. Future Updates: Jeff Lehman is going to be posting updates in the future, so expect them with more regularity than I have been able to achieve. Thanks to Jeff, for taking on the task. General Talking: We had some new faces at the meeting, and we spent some time in a general discussion about Wireless 101. FYI, for anyone who hasn?t checked out tcwug.org lately, there?s FAQ?s are great and cover a lot. Next Meeting: The second Tuesday of September, 9/9, same time (6:00-8:00), same place (Freight House Dunn Bro?s). As to the location of the meetings, I?m open to having them at other places. The only requirements: free wi-fi, space for 15-20 people, and the availability of some kind of refreshments. Any suggestions, post to the list or let me know. Questions? Yearning to know more about another subject? Aching to be more involved? Post to the list or contact me directly. See everyone next month. Ben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030813/f900fd92/attachment.htm From benmgroup at earthlink.net Wed Aug 13 22:08:16 2003 From: benmgroup at earthlink.net (Ben Nelson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:53 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Outreach ideas Message-ID: Everyone, Here?s the snip from the meeting notes: Andrew been working on literature that could be distributed to the public that talks about wireless, TCWUG, and generally encourages people to get involved and set up hotspots. A question at the meeting was: by using netstumbler, or just turning on your wi-fi card, you/we can see networks and tell if they?re open or not. Also, it?s not to hard to narrow the location down to a small area. Here?s the problem: how can we contact the person running the hotspot, and either get them to list themselves as a public hotspot or help them secure their network, without, for lack of a better phrase, creeping them out totally? I?m going to post this to the list as a separate piece, as I think outreach is pretty important, and I?d like to get some other views. Ideas? Thoughts? Andrew, can you post your brochure? -- Ben Nelson 612.685.9116 cell benmgroup@earthlink.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030813/ff648391/attachment.html From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Aug 13 22:27:35 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:54 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] 8/12 Meeting Notes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030814032734.GA13598@techmonkeys.org> Sorry I missed the meeting, I was in Chicago yesterday. On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 10:03:15PM -0500, Ben Nelson wrote: > Everyone, > > Here?s the latest from last night?s meeting: [snip] > Call for Parts: > We?re looking for some components to further the Loring park project: an > omni antenna and an access point. If you?ve got an extra of either of these > available for extended loan or to donate, or are interested in sponsoring > the purchase of same, let me know! Think of it: you?ll be sitting in the > park, surfing the web, knowing you are a vital part of the operation. That?s > not radiation, that?s the warm feeling of a good deed done. I may have some antennas available for use soon. > Outreach: > Andrew been working on literature that could be distributed to the public > that talks about wireless, TCWUG, and generally encourages people to get > involved and set up hotspots. A question at the meeting was: by using > netstumbler, or just turning on your wi-fi card, you/we can see networks and > tell if they?re open or not. Also, it?s not to hard to narrow the location > down to a small area. Here?s the problem: how can we contact the person > running the hotspot, and either get them to list themselves as a public > hotspot or help them secure their network, without, for lack of a better > phrase, creeping them out totally? I?m going to post this to the list as a > separate piece, as I think outreach is pretty important, and I?d like to get > some other views. Why would we want to go out of our way to bother people with making their access points harder to use? A lot of people simply do NOT care, and it's really not a security issue (they're much more likely to get infected/violated/etc from the internet than from their WAP), are you also going to update the firmware on not only their access point, but every client card they use to insure that they're not broadcasting weak WEP packets? Besides the fact that people/companies do _not_ enjoy being told their systems are "insecure", if you'd like to start a movement to 'secure' every access point feel free, I don't think it's a valid concern for the group. [snip] > Next Meeting: > The second Tuesday of September, 9/9, same time (6:00-8:00), same place > (Freight House Dunn Bro?s). I'll be there. > See everyone next month. > > Ben -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From andyw at pobox.com Wed Aug 13 22:50:02 2003 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:54 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Wifi bubble warnings are starting. Message-ID: <20030813225001.E22346@florence.linkmargin.com> Found this fairly interesting article about public access WiFi possibly being another dot-com style bubble. It's from a UK newspaper, so some of the companies & venues might not be familiar, but the underlying business concepts are common: http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/story/0,3605,1017664,00.html You can substitute iPass, Wayport and others for "The Cloud" and "Broadreach". -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From plmnwater at yahoo.com Thu Aug 14 06:13:57 2003 From: plmnwater at yahoo.com (Dave W.) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:54 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] 8/12 Meeting Notes In-Reply-To: <20030814032734.GA13598@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20030814111357.55764.qmail@web9603.mail.yahoo.com> > Besides the fact that people/companies do _not_ enjoy being told > their systems are > "insecure", if you'd like to start a movement to 'secure' every > access point > feel free, I don't think it's a valid concern for the group. I agree with that one. Most of the time if I've told people about vulnerabilities to their system, they have looked at me as if I'm some sort of evildoer. I think it would be good to help people secure their systems if they don't want an open AP, but you would have to think of a way to do it without weirding them out. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at stratvantage.com Thu Aug 14 07:42:43 2003 From: mellsworth at stratvantage.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:54 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Why secure your WLAN? In-Reply-To: <20030814111357.55764.qmail@web9603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <016801c36261$8edaa770$6401a8c0@stratlap2> One good way to get people interested in securing their WLANs is to tell them that random people could be using their Internet connection to download kiddie porn. Then they could face the same fate as the guy in England mentioned in a news story in the Strib this week: http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/4034940.html Or a spammer could use their connection to send a million spam emails, causing their ISP to cut them off. These things could really happen, and I think constitute a valid concern for the group and anyone providing free WLAN access to the Internet. As far as coming up with a way to find open WLANs and inform their owners about security without weirding them out, I'd love to figure that one out too. Mike Ellsworth StratVantage Consulting, LLC Helping Successful Companies Make Winning Technology Decisions 8273 Westwood Hills Curve St. Louis Park, MN 55426 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiFiGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Dave W. Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 6:14 AM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] 8/12 Meeting Notes > Besides the fact that people/companies do _not_ enjoy being told > their systems are > "insecure", if you'd like to start a movement to 'secure' every > access point > feel free, I don't think it's a valid concern for the group. I agree with that one. Most of the time if I've told people about vulnerabilities to their system, they have looked at me as if I'm some sort of evildoer. I think it would be good to help people secure their systems if they don't want an open AP, but you would have to think of a way to do it without weirding them out. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From thewizard808 at hotmail.com Thu Aug 14 07:49:49 2003 From: thewizard808 at hotmail.com (James Thomas) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:54 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] 8/12 Meeting Notes Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030814/08c6459f/attachment.htm From andrew at azimmer.com Thu Aug 14 12:04:15 2003 From: andrew at azimmer.com (Andrew Zimmer) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:54 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] 8/12 Meeting Notes In-Reply-To: <20030814032734.GA13598@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <000a01c36286$17783740$6701a8c0@az.local> Here is why I brought up the outreach and securing access points. I've been passively scanning the Minneapolis/St. Paul area and suburbs with my laptop while I'm driving and/or walking from here to there. So far, I have found 1329 access points that are not secured and 954 access points that are secured. Not all of the AP's are left at the default settings, most have changed the ESSID. I have not tried associating to any of the access points so I only know they are broadcasting packets on 2.4 GHz bandwidth. These access points would be an amazing resource to TCWUG if the owners of the AP's can be found and would be willing to work with us. Maybe TCWUG can work with one neighborhood at a time and see if TCWUG can get that neighborhood setup with wireless internet access? I'm working on some information that can be left out in public locations or posted to poles relating to the group. I'll be posting some to the list here soon. TCWUG should be an information source not an implementation source. I believe that TCWUG should be making recommendations and/or coordinating wireless networking in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. Loring Park is a good PR project but TCWUG currently do not have an overabundance of people participating. As far as securing access points, TCWUG should be informing people that they should implement some form of security and inform them of the risk if they do not. Security does add a level of complexity that is sometimes unnecessary. I'm not sure if security is more like insurance or an anti-virus, you do not really need either but when you do it's a little too late. I do not think it is possible for TCWUG can take it upon itself to implement security for everyone in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. Thanks, Andrew _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Aug 14 14:31:34 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:55 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Why secure your WLAN? In-Reply-To: <016801c36261$8edaa770$6401a8c0@stratlap2> References: <20030814111357.55764.qmail@web9603.mail.yahoo.com> <016801c36261$8edaa770$6401a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: <20030814193134.GD13598@techmonkeys.org> None of this makes any difference whatsoever. Spammers are not driving around to find open access points, they're creating worms that infect windows machines and turn them into proxies -- all from the comfort of home. The same goes for kiddie porn, there are lists of hundreds of thousands of open proxies out there that have already been blacklisted in the spam RBL's that are perfectly fine for use as anonymizers to people who wish to participate in child pornography. As for the startribune story, the guy was one of the following: 1) Actually viewing kiddie porn 2) Going to porn websites and randomly clicking 'Yes' 3) (Knowingly) running executables off the web, probably the ones that say FREE PORN JUST CLICK YES 4) Infected via the multitude of bugs in Windows, MSIE, or MSOE. I still fail to see the reason why anyone is interested in running around annoying/scaring/threatening/blackmailing people by telling them their WLAN is insecure. Companies DO NOT WANT TO KNOW, they'll call it blackmail, call their lawyers, and force you to sign an NDA before they ever consider securing their WLAN. Joe Blow consumer is much the same, he doesn't care, he feels that he doesn't do anything on the internet worth spying on, and even if he does, the chance of anyone caring enough to sit outside his house and watch is nil. If you really want to start securing WLAN's, you're going to have to start with securing the systems sitting on the WLAN and the LAN. This will never happen. You're wasting your time and opening a can of worms that will land you in a world of hurt (and possibly jail). Please go back and see all the local TV and paper stories about evil war drivers and how to secure your WLAN, if those hyped up pieces of trash didn't scare people into securing their WLAN, you walking up to their front door isn't going to either. On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 07:42:43AM -0500, Mike Ellsworth wrote: > One good way to get people interested in securing their WLANs is to tell > them that random people could be using their Internet connection to download > kiddie porn. Then they could face the same fate as the guy in England > mentioned in a news story in the Strib this week: > > http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/4034940.html > > Or a spammer could use their connection to send a million spam emails, > causing their ISP to cut them off. > > These things could really happen, and I think constitute a valid concern for > the group and anyone providing free WLAN access to the Internet. > > As far as coming up with a way to find open WLANs and inform their owners > about security without weirding them out, I'd love to figure that one out > too. > > Mike Ellsworth -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From bogey20 at excite.com Thu Aug 14 15:26:59 2003 From: bogey20 at excite.com (Jeff) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:55 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Why secure your WLAN? Message-ID: <20030814202659.CFF493D40@xmxpita.excite.com> Hi all, I've been a steady lurker around this community for probably the past year or so. This one email grabbed my attention more than any other. I'm running a local network with a wireless access point and IMO security should be the number one priority. Basically, I see nothing wrong with bringing to people's attention WLAN security. You can provide this info to anyone whether they are running an AP or not. They can do with the info as they wish but I think it's a wise move to at least mention it and it may save TCWUG's ass in the future! And yes this is possible without scare tactics like: annoying/scaring/threatening/blackmailing Does anyone else see something wrong with this kind of "it'll never happen" attitude? No offense, but I do... </flame> Regards, JJ -----Original Message----- From: Matthew S. Hallacy [mailto:poptix@techmonkeys.org] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:32 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org None of this makes any difference whatsoever. Spammers are not driving around to find open access points, they're creating worms that infect windows machines and turn them into proxies -- all from the comfort of home. The same goes for kiddie porn, there are lists of hundreds of thousands of open proxies out there that have already been blacklisted in the spam RBL's that are perfectly fine for use as anonymizers to people who wish to participate in child pornography. As for the startribune story, the guy was one of the following: 1) Actually viewing kiddie porn 2) Going to porn websites and randomly clicking 'Yes' 3) (Knowingly) running executables off the web, probably the ones that say FREE PORN JUST CLICK YES 4) Infected via the multitude of bugs in Windows, MSIE, or MSOE. I still fail to see the reason why anyone is interested in running around annoying/scaring/threatening/blackmailing people by telling them their WLAN is insecure. Companies DO NOT WANT TO KNOW, they'll call it blackmail, call their lawyers, and force you to sign an NDA before they ever consider securing their WLAN. Joe Blow consumer is much the same, he doesn't care, he feels that he doesn't do anything on the internet worth spying on, and even if he does, the chance of anyone caring enough to sit outside his house and watch is nil. If you really want to start securing WLAN's, you're going to have to start with securing the systems sitting on the WLAN and the LAN. This will never happen. You're wasting your time and opening a can of worms that will land you in a world of hurt (and possibly jail). Please go back and see all the local TV and paper stories about evil war drivers and how to secure your WLAN, if those hyped up pieces of trash didn't scare people into securing their WLAN, you walking up to their front door isn't going to either. </rant> On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 07:42:43AM -0500, Mike Ellsworth wrote: > One good way to get people interested in securing their WLANs is to > tell them that random people could be using their Internet connection > to download kiddie porn. Then they could face the same fate as the guy > in England mentioned in a news story in the Strib this week: > > http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/4034940.html > > Or a spammer could use their connection to send a million spam emails, > causing their ISP to cut them off. > > These things could really happen, and I think constitute a valid > concern for the group and anyone providing free WLAN access to the Internet. > > As far as coming up with a way to find open WLANs and inform their > owners about security without weirding them out, I'd love to figure > that one out too. > > Mike Ellsworth -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030814/018b844d/attachment.html From andrew at azimmer.com Thu Aug 14 16:06:37 2003 From: andrew at azimmer.com (Andrew Zimmer) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:55 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Why secure your WLAN? In-Reply-To: <20030814193134.GD13598@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <002a01c362a7$f2fdddd0$6701a8c0@az.local> Yes, security does matter. It will matter for as long as we all will live. Why are manufacturer including WEP on their hardware at all? I doubt that it is cost effective to. In the business environment, security is becoming priority number one it is not already. The way I see wireless access points is that they are like a door. You an either leave it open or close the door with WEP or some other more advanced security. I think an open door is generally regarded as inviting but maybe it depends on the context. What does non-secure 802.11 from an unknown source in my house say? Hop on the network or say off? Anyways, it should not and does not have to be about annoying/scaring/threatening/blackmailing, it should be about education and cooperation. If TCWUG isn't informing and working with the public then what is it for? TCWUG should be helping people setup open networks as correctly as we can in their neighborhood either by doing site surveys, recommending hardware, basic guidance on AP setup, and just spreading the wireless word. Andrew _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at stratvantage.com Thu Aug 14 16:51:32 2003 From: mellsworth at stratvantage.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:55 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Why secure your WLAN? In-Reply-To: <002a01c362a7$f2fdddd0$6701a8c0@az.local> Message-ID: <01f301c362ae$3a627b30$6401a8c0@stratlap2> I agree with Andrew. If you can't even lock the door, then you are inviting whatever behavior happens. In fact, I advise my clients to not put "Welcome to XYZ Corp" on their logo screens because lawyers have interpreted this to mean, "Come on in!" I think the argument that people/companies don't want to know contains a particle of truth, but it is definitely not universally true. The very first thing my clients ask me is about security. If they didn't want to know, then they wouldn't ask. However, I remain interested in the group's feeling about seeking out open access points and offering assistance. The way I read the law, it's OK to associate with an open AP, but if you consume resources (beyond, I guess, the electricity used to run the AP or its attached LAN), you are committing a crime. Anyone have any comments on this? Thanks. Mike Ellsworth StratVantage Consulting, LLC Helping Successful Companies Make Winning Technology Decisions 8273 Westwood Hills Curve St. Louis Park, MN 55426 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiFiGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Zimmer Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 4:07 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Why secure your WLAN? Yes, security does matter. It will matter for as long as we all will live. Why are manufacturer including WEP on their hardware at all? I doubt that it is cost effective to. In the business environment, security is becoming priority number one it is not already. The way I see wireless access points is that they are like a door. You an either leave it open or close the door with WEP or some other more advanced security. I think an open door is generally regarded as inviting but maybe it depends on the context. What does non-secure 802.11 from an unknown source in my house say? Hop on the network or say off? Anyways, it should not and does not have to be about annoying/scaring/threatening/blackmailing, it should be about education and cooperation. If TCWUG isn't informing and working with the public then what is it for? TCWUG should be helping people setup open networks as correctly as we can in their neighborhood either by doing site surveys, recommending hardware, basic guidance on AP setup, and just spreading the wireless word. Andrew _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Aug 14 16:55:20 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:55 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Why secure your WLAN? In-Reply-To: <002a01c362a7$f2fdddd0$6701a8c0@az.local> References: <20030814193134.GD13598@techmonkeys.org> <002a01c362a7$f2fdddd0$6701a8c0@az.local> Message-ID: <20030814215520.GE13598@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 04:06:37PM -0500, Andrew Zimmer wrote: > Yes, security does matter. It will matter for as long as we all will > live. Why are manufacturer including WEP on their hardware at all? I > doubt that it is cost effective to. In the business environment, > security is becoming priority number one it is not already. They include WEP because, iirc, it's a required part of the standard for the rubber stamp saying you're WiFi compatible. > The way I see wireless access points is that they are like a door. You > an either leave it open or close the door with WEP or some other more > advanced security. I think an open door is generally regarded as > inviting but maybe it depends on the context. What does non-secure > 802.11 from an unknown source in my house say? Hop on the network or > say off? Do you drive around looking for open doors, then stop and tell those people how insecure their home is because it's open? Some people don't mind neighbors coming in, some people find it more convenient, and others just weigh the chances of theft vs. convenience and decide to leave the door open. > Anyways, it should not and does not have to be about > annoying/scaring/threatening/blackmailing, it should be about education > and cooperation. If TCWUG isn't informing and working with the public > then what is it for? TCWUG should be helping people setup open networks > as correctly as we can in their neighborhood either by doing site > surveys, recommending hardware, basic guidance on AP setup, and just > spreading the wireless word. People interpret it as annoying, scary, threatening, and blackmail. People can't be bothered to program their VCR to stop flashing 12:00, they aren't interested in the configuration of their WAP -- it works, thats all they care about. We aren't the wireless police, we can give advice -to people who care to ask-. A lot of people are perfectly happy to let people use their access point as long as it doesn't involve any further hassle (ie, maintaining a captive portal type system). The TCWUG is not a cause (secure the planet, woohoo!), it's a group of people interested in wireless. If someone isn't interested in the group, they shouldn't be bothered by members. Why are you so insistant on bothering people about something they do not want to hear? They don't want to know that their windows system is vulnerable, they do not want to hear that their SUV is polluting the atmosphere, and they certainly do not want to hear some techno babble about their oh-so-convenient WAP. Consider the problems that people -on- the list have getting WEP setup (40bit vs 104bit, incompatible keyphrase->hex generators, weak wep firmware, etc) now consider not only informing, but *supporting* those people who simply want to open their laptop, and get on the internet. I deal with these people every day, windows boxes trying to brute force other windows systems, email worms, open proxies, hacked systems, open relays, DDoS drones, etc. their response is always: "IT WORKS FINE FOR ME, AND THATS ALL THAT MATTERS" > Andrew -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From andrew at azimmer.com Thu Aug 14 18:38:31 2003 From: andrew at azimmer.com (Andrew Zimmer) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:55 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Why secure your WLAN? In-Reply-To: <20030814215520.GE13598@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <002d01c362bd$2bb50350$6701a8c0@az.local> > Do you drive around looking for open doors, then stop and tell those > people how insecure their home is because it's open? Some people > don't mind neighbors coming in, some people find it more convenient, > and others just weigh the chances of theft vs. convenience and decide > to leave the door open. Nope, I do not drive around looking for open doors and tell them it is insecure. I know people that do leave their doors open and I do not discuss the merits of locking their door. I always though this was kind of common sense. Since wireless is a little more complicated than a door and a more recent technology I would figure that people may be a bit more open to suggestions. Looking for access points in the cities here is a pretty good way to narrow marketing for the group. People with an access point are probably going to be interested in wireless. This whole thread has kind of been blown out of proportion. My whole thing was not about security. It was about finding other people to participate in TCWUG. There are not that many topics with wireless that your average user is going to be interested in. I figured security would be something people would have a keener interest in. WEP is easy to talk about. It is fairly easy to implement and it is free. We can just as easily talk about Linux AP's, maybe some 802.11x, antennas or RF but your average user will probably fain interest and not be seen again. The group needs to be more user-friendly and not necessarily nerd-friendly. > We aren't the wireless police, we can give advice -to people who > care to ask-. A lot of people are perfectly happy to let people use their > access point as long as it doesn't involve any further hassle (ie, > maintaining > a captive portal type system). I agree we cannot be wireless police. I think it is just fine if people want to use their open access points and not have anyone bother them. How do I know that's what you are trying to do? I'm saying WEP would be a pretty cheap and obvious, "no you cannot and leave me alone". > The TCWUG is not a cause (secure the planet, woohoo!), it's a group of > people > interested in wireless. If someone isn't interested in the group, they > shouldn't be bothered by members. I think TCWUG should be a cause, a wireless network for everybody. I'm also interested in wireless but want to do something too. Sitting around a table and talking about wireless doesn't really appeal to me and by the attendance at the meetings I think others feel the same way. This thread brings up some questions about the goals of this group. Should the group work on wireless projects within the Twin Cities? Do we want to educate users about issues like security? What are the things TCWUG want to accomplish? Andrew _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From andrew at azimmer.com Thu Aug 14 22:22:09 2003 From: andrew at azimmer.com (Andrew Zimmer) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:55 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Outreach ideas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002e01c362dc$69443230$6701a8c0@az.local> For any people that just recently signed up for the discussion list, how easy was it to find TCWUG? I know TCWUG is listed on Personal Telco's site but I do not know of anything other than that. Here is what I'm basically thinking of with the outreach. We can find an area with an AP. We can then post this flyer to a post near the AP. Not right in front of the house that we think has the AP but on at the ends of the street. Maybe we can post them on the streets adjacent to the street with the AP, too. We can also post it into local coffee shops and other places that are flyer friendly. I'm thinking something that just has a blurb about the TCWUG meetings, discussion list and the TCWUG URL. I was thinking of something like this http://tcwug.azimmer.com/tcwug%20flyer.htm. I think I want to work on it some more. I do not know if it would be better to put a contact person on it. It may appear more personable but I'm not sure. Since I do not know all of my neighbors, I was also thinking of something like a heads up to YOUR neighbors of YOUR access point. Here is what I am thinking http://tcwug.azimmer.com/TCUWG%20Notice2.jpg. I'm thinking of starting a neighborhood wireless user group. I think I will try this in my neighborhood first and see how people respond. Thanks, Andrew _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From dieman at ringworld.org Thu Aug 14 23:43:07 2003 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:55 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Why secure your WLAN? In-Reply-To: <20030814215520.GE13598@techmonkeys.org> References: <20030814193134.GD13598@techmonkeys.org> <002a01c362a7$f2fdddd0$6701a8c0@az.local> <20030814215520.GE13598@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <1060922584.14131.5.camel@runabout.ringworld.org> On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 16:55, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > "IT WORKS FINE FOR ME, AND THATS ALL THAT MATTERS" Thats usually a few minutes before their ISP disconnects them because their machine is running (a legitmately or worm installed) wide open winproxy. :) The problem being, is that abuse will eventually catch up to these, and those people will bear mroe trouble than its worth. Someday, however, I expect people to figure it out, not people evangalizing to non-techies about it. I doubt they care, yet. It was funny to see the speculation on /. about the worm causing the power outage today. Someday there will be an emergency caused by a widespread security issue that people end up ignoring, and they will start to learn why its important to care. Scary enough, the CERT BOF at usenix 2001 the #1 thing that scared a few of the guys there was electricity control computer networks and their exposure to the internet. (from their own consulting experience) Of course, this was 'pre 9/11', but yikes. Thanks! -- Scott Dier KC0OBS http://www.ringworld.org/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at stratvantage.com Fri Aug 15 00:21:31 2003 From: mellsworth at stratvantage.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:55 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Why secure your WLAN? In-Reply-To: <1060922584.14131.5.camel@runabout.ringworld.org> Message-ID: <001201c362ed$168b6070$6401a8c0@stratlap2> "Scary enough, the CERT BOF at usenix 2001 the #1 thing that scared a few of the guys there was electricity control computer networks and their exposure to the internet. (from their own consulting experience)" What's even scarier is that Windows is making inroads in the SCADA space! That's worse than putting it in charge of a luxury automobile (BMW 745)! Mike Ellsworth StratVantage Consulting, LLC Helping Successful Companies Make Winning Technology Decisions 8273 Westwood Hills Curve St. Louis Park, MN 55426 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiFiGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Scott Dier Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:43 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Why secure your WLAN? On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 16:55, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > "IT WORKS FINE FOR ME, AND THATS ALL THAT MATTERS" Thats usually a few minutes before their ISP disconnects them because their machine is running (a legitmately or worm installed) wide open winproxy. :) The problem being, is that abuse will eventually catch up to these, and those people will bear mroe trouble than its worth. Someday, however, I expect people to figure it out, not people evangalizing to non-techies about it. I doubt they care, yet. It was funny to see the speculation on /. about the worm causing the power outage today. Someday there will be an emergency caused by a widespread security issue that people end up ignoring, and they will start to learn why its important to care. Scary enough, the CERT BOF at usenix 2001 the #1 thing that scared a few of the guys there was electricity control computer networks and their exposure to the internet. (from their own consulting experience) Of course, this was 'pre 9/11', but yikes. Thanks! -- Scott Dier KC0OBS http://www.ringworld.org/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Aug 15 03:00:58 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:55 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Why secure your WLAN? In-Reply-To: <1060922584.14131.5.camel@runabout.ringworld.org> References: <20030814193134.GD13598@techmonkeys.org> <002a01c362a7$f2fdddd0$6701a8c0@az.local> <20030814215520.GE13598@techmonkeys.org> <1060922584.14131.5.camel@runabout.ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20030815080058.GG13598@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 11:43:07PM -0500, Scott Dier wrote: > It was funny to see the speculation on /. about the worm causing the > power outage today. Someday there will be an emergency caused by a > widespread security issue that people end up ignoring, and they will > start to learn why its important to care. Scary enough, the CERT BOF at > usenix 2001 the #1 thing that scared a few of the guys there was > electricity control computer networks and their exposure to the > internet. (from their own consulting experience) Of course, this was > 'pre 9/11', but yikes. I flew into Chicago on Tuesday for the grand tour of Equinix (a large fortress where they searched me more thoroughly than airport security, and removed all electronic devices before allowing us through just to make sure I didn't have any devices capable of taking pictures or recording audio), when we got to the main electrical control room, they were showing the redundant systems, and the two touch screen panels that control their entire power grid. When the engineer brought up a sub menu I noticed the tell-tale Visual Basic default program icon in the top left corner of the dialog. This is the kind of place that has subdued lighting _everywhere_ so you can't see who they're hosting (ie, financial institutions, government agencies, telecoms) Luckily, after showing off the redundant touch screen panels, the engineer pointed to a bank of switches, knobs, and gauges on another panel indicating it was the manual control panel in case both of the touch screen systems went off-line. Aside from that though, if you're looking for a secure place to host something where you can leave a $10,000 piece of equipment on a table in the lobby for a few hours without worry, Equinix is the place for you. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at stratvantage.com Fri Aug 15 17:42:19 2003 From: mellsworth at stratvantage.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:55 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Why secure your WLAN? In-Reply-To: <001201c362ed$168b6070$6401a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: <009101c3637e$7dd5ab50$6401a8c0@stratlap2> Regarding the assertion that companies don't want to know about security vulnerabilities: Thirty-one percent of executives surveyed by Jupiter Research cited low network security as the number one barrier to deployment of WLANs, their top concern centering on rogue users accessing the corporate network from outside the corporation. It would seem that at least some companies are worried about wireless security. Mike Ellsworth StratVantage Consulting, LLC Helping Successful Companies Make Winning Technology Decisions 8273 Westwood Hills Curve St. Louis Park, MN 55426 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiFiGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ellsworth Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 12:22 AM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Re: Why secure your WLAN? "Scary enough, the CERT BOF at usenix 2001 the #1 thing that scared a few of the guys there was electricity control computer networks and their exposure to the internet. (from their own consulting experience)" What's even scarier is that Windows is making inroads in the SCADA space! That's worse than putting it in charge of a luxury automobile (BMW 745)! Mike Ellsworth StratVantage Consulting, LLC Helping Successful Companies Make Winning Technology Decisions 8273 Westwood Hills Curve St. Louis Park, MN 55426 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiFiGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Scott Dier Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:43 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Why secure your WLAN? On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 16:55, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > "IT WORKS FINE FOR ME, AND THATS ALL THAT MATTERS" Thats usually a few minutes before their ISP disconnects them because their machine is running (a legitmately or worm installed) wide open winproxy. :) The problem being, is that abuse will eventually catch up to these, and those people will bear mroe trouble than its worth. Someday, however, I expect people to figure it out, not people evangalizing to non-techies about it. I doubt they care, yet. It was funny to see the speculation on /. about the worm causing the power outage today. Someday there will be an emergency caused by a widespread security issue that people end up ignoring, and they will start to learn why its important to care. Scary enough, the CERT BOF at usenix 2001 the #1 thing that scared a few of the guys there was electricity control computer networks and their exposure to the internet. (from their own consulting experience) Of course, this was 'pre 9/11', but yikes. Thanks! -- Scott Dier KC0OBS http://www.ringworld.org/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From andyw at pobox.com Fri Aug 15 18:08:59 2003 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:55 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Why secure your WLAN? In-Reply-To: <009101c3637e$7dd5ab50$6401a8c0@stratlap2>; from mellsworth@stratvantage.com on Fri, Aug 15, 2003 at 05:42:19PM -0500 References: <001201c362ed$168b6070$6401a8c0@stratlap2> <009101c3637e$7dd5ab50$6401a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: <20030815180859.H22878@florence.linkmargin.com> Mike Ellsworth wrote: > Regarding the assertion that companies don't want to know about security > vulnerabilities: > > Thirty-one percent of executives surveyed by Jupiter Research cited low > network security as the number one barrier to deployment of WLANs, their top > concern centering on rogue users accessing the corporate network from > outside the corporation. So that's 31% of the population that's unlikely to show up in your kismet log. A large proportion of the other 69% might have WLANs deployed by IT folks who are *very* unlikely to appreciate you turning up on their doorstep implicitly saying "you're incompetant" (which is how the pointy-haired types will intepret your intervention.) I agree with those that suggest that if you regard this as a problem (and there's obviously more than 1 school of thought on that); education is the answer - it's just a fairly long (and unprofitable) process. Don't look for people to answer the door with a look of grateful relief (or with their checkbook already open.) IMHO, things like kismet logs are useful at two extrememly different levels: 1. tracking down a particular problem (like the coverage of node x, the source of interference, etc.) 2. at the level of aggregated statistics (overall percentage of secure/insecure APs, rate of deployment, AP density per unit area, residential vs. commercial, making pretty maps, etc.) To me, they seem of limited use between these two extremes. BTW - did you ever get your Airport/XP problem ironed out, if so, what was the trick ? -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at stratvantage.com Fri Aug 15 18:26:09 2003 From: mellsworth at stratvantage.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Airport/XP problem In-Reply-To: <20030815180859.H22878@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <009c01c36384$9c33a8d0$6401a8c0@stratlap2> "BTW - did you ever get your Airport/XP problem ironed out, if so, what was the trick ?" Nope. Haven't been back at it. But now my friend complains that the Airport keeps dropping the XP machine. And I haven't found the XP utility for the Airport due to lack of time. Mike Ellsworth StratVantage Consulting, LLC Helping Successful Companies Make Winning Technology Decisions 8273 Westwood Hills Curve St. Louis Park, MN 55426 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiFiGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Andy Warner Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 6:09 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Re: Why secure your WLAN? Mike Ellsworth wrote: > Regarding the assertion that companies don't want to know about security > vulnerabilities: > > Thirty-one percent of executives surveyed by Jupiter Research cited low > network security as the number one barrier to deployment of WLANs, their top > concern centering on rogue users accessing the corporate network from > outside the corporation. So that's 31% of the population that's unlikely to show up in your kismet log. A large proportion of the other 69% might have WLANs deployed by IT folks who are *very* unlikely to appreciate you turning up on their doorstep implicitly saying "you're incompetant" (which is how the pointy-haired types will intepret your intervention.) I agree with those that suggest that if you regard this as a problem (and there's obviously more than 1 school of thought on that); education is the answer - it's just a fairly long (and unprofitable) process. Don't look for people to answer the door with a look of grateful relief (or with their checkbook already open.) IMHO, things like kismet logs are useful at two extrememly different levels: 1. tracking down a particular problem (like the coverage of node x, the source of interference, etc.) 2. at the level of aggregated statistics (overall percentage of secure/insecure APs, rate of deployment, AP density per unit area, residential vs. commercial, making pretty maps, etc.) To me, they seem of limited use between these two extremes. BTW - did you ever get your Airport/XP problem ironed out, if so, what was the trick ? -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From nkras at visi.com Fri Aug 15 18:26:54 2003 From: nkras at visi.com (Neal Krasnoff) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Let's set up a cloud instead (was: Why secure your WLAN?) In-Reply-To: <20030815180859.H22878@florence.linkmargin.com> References: <001201c362ed$168b6070$6401a8c0@stratlap2> <009101c3637e$7dd5ab50$6401a8c0@stratlap2> <20030815180859.H22878@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <3F3D6C3E.50205@visi.com> We should concecrate on getting an actual wireless network operating at Loring Park, and then go from there. :-D Neal _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Fri Aug 15 20:03:33 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Let's set up a cloud instead (was: Why secure your WLAN?) In-Reply-To: <3F3D6C3E.50205@visi.com> References: <001201c362ed$168b6070$6401a8c0@stratlap2> <009101c3637e$7dd5ab50$6401a8c0@stratlap2> <20030815180859.H22878@florence.linkmargin.com> <3F3D6C3E.50205@visi.com> Message-ID: <20030816010333.GL12831@autonomous.tv> On Fri, Aug 15, 2003 at 06:26:54PM -0500, Neal Krasnoff wrote: >We should concecrate on getting an actual wireless network operating at >Loring Park, and then go from there. That sounds like a very sensible idea. What is the essid? What is the topology? Where is the Internet coming from? Is NoCAT being used? Forgive me, I have missed the last few meetings. As relative to this thread, I firmly believe we must first addrest OUR issues before we begin to 'police' others. -- Linux Administrator || Technology Specialist || Wifi Engineer http://autonomous.tv/~spencer/resume/ || spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030815/aac72e28/attachment.pgp From nkras at visi.com Fri Aug 15 20:24:37 2003 From: nkras at visi.com (Neal Krasnoff) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Let's set up a cloud instead In-Reply-To: <20030816010333.GL12831@autonomous.tv> References: <001201c362ed$168b6070$6401a8c0@stratlap2> <009101c3637e$7dd5ab50$6401a8c0@stratlap2> <20030815180859.H22878@florence.linkmargin.com> <3F3D6C3E.50205@visi.com> <20030816010333.GL12831@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <3F3D87D5.8030603@visi.com> Spencer Butler wrote: >On Fri, Aug 15, 2003 at 06:26:54PM -0500, Neal Krasnoff wrote: > > >>We should concecrate on getting an actual wireless network operating at >>Loring Park, and then go from there. >> >> >That sounds like a very sensible idea. What is the essid? What is the >topology? Where is the Internet coming from? Is NoCAT being used? >Forgive me, I have missed the last few meetings. > Take a look at the meeting notes posted to the list, or the archives. I'm in the final stages of determining which antennas I will purchase for the first phase of coverage. I'm trying to decide if we should go omni and provide the immediate neighborhood with coverage as well as the park. If not, a panel antenna would be sufficient if the horizontal beamwidth is wide enough. >As relative to this thread, I firmly believe we must first addres[s] OUR >issues before we begin to 'police' others. > Agreed. Providing public wireless access is our prime directive. IMHO, of course. :-) Neal _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From nkras at visi.com Fri Aug 15 20:35:01 2003 From: nkras at visi.com (Neal Krasnoff) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Coverage area - request feedback In-Reply-To: <3F3D87D5.8030603@visi.com> References: <001201c362ed$168b6070$6401a8c0@stratlap2> <009101c3637e$7dd5ab50$6401a8c0@stratlap2> <20030815180859.H22878@florence.linkmargin.com> <3F3D6C3E.50205@visi.com> <20030816010333.GL12831@autonomous.tv> <3F3D87D5.8030603@visi.com> Message-ID: <3F3D8A45.6030809@visi.com> Neal Krasnoff wrote: > I'm trying to decide if we should go omni and provide the immediate > neighborhood with coverage as well as the park. Should we just cover the Park or cover the Park and surrounding areas? Neal _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From andrew at azimmer.com Fri Aug 15 20:55:09 2003 From: andrew at azimmer.com (Andrew Zimmer) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Coverage area - request feedback In-Reply-To: <3F3D8A45.6030809@visi.com> Message-ID: <000b01c36399$6c7ad040$6701a8c0@az.local> > Should we just cover the Park or cover the Park and surrounding areas? The park is the goal. We can probably provide better coverage if we just focus on just the park. If we can find an omni is cheaper or the same price and we can get the same range on it then we should go ahead with that. We need to remember that we can only support a limited number of users with the infrastructure we have. I'm not sure what we have for Internet bandwidth but I'm pretty sure it's < 1Mb. Does anyone know of a local LMR provider? I've tried contacting First Mile Wireless in Blaine with no response. Andrew. _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From kaun at redwing.net Sat Aug 16 10:15:55 2003 From: kaun at redwing.net (Dave/Kathy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Loring Park Coverage Message-ID: <001c01c36409$4dce6100$a99c2c42@S0028522333> I have been reading with interest about the planning going into to coverage of Loring Park. A comment about antenna selection: If MCTC is using wireless internally in its building (which I suspect it is) and possibly areas between its campus buildings, I would suggest making sure coverage and channel selection do not interfere with the college. A directional antenna would go a long way to help. Dave, N9KMY Hudson, WI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030816/98789db1/attachment.html From chrome at real-time.com Sat Aug 16 10:42:17 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Coverage area - request feedback In-Reply-To: <000b01c36399$6c7ad040$6701a8c0@az.local>; from andrew@azimmer.com on Fri, Aug 15, 2003 at 08:55:09PM -0500 References: <3F3D8A45.6030809@visi.com> <000b01c36399$6c7ad040$6701a8c0@az.local> Message-ID: <20030816104212.J27788@real-time.com> > Does anyone know of a local LMR provider? I've tried contacting First > Mile Wireless in Blaine with no response. I was under the impression that Radio City sold it. I don't know their address off hand tho. Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From dieman at ringworld.org Sat Aug 16 11:07:21 2003 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier - dieman) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Coverage area - request feedback In-Reply-To: <20030816104212.J27788@real-time.com> Message-ID: yes they do www.radioinc.com afair On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > Does anyone know of a local LMR provider? I've tried contacting First > > Mile Wireless in Blaine with no response. > > I was under the impression that Radio City sold it. I don't know their > address off hand tho. > > Carl Soderstrom. > -- Scott Dier KC0OBS http://www.ringworld.org/ Free USA from energy dependence, http://www.apolloalliance.org/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From andrew at azimmer.com Sat Aug 16 12:59:17 2003 From: andrew at azimmer.com (Andrew Zimmer) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Loring Park Coverage In-Reply-To: <001c01c36409$4dce6100$a99c2c42@S0028522333> Message-ID: <002c01c36420$1c9936c0$6701a8c0@az.local> > I have been reading with interest about the planning going into to coverage of Loring Park. A comment about antenna > selection: If MCTC is using wireless internally in its building (which I suspect it is) and possibly areas between > its campus buildings, I would suggest making sure coverage and channel selection do not interfere with the college. A > directional antenna would go a long way to help. We have had a meeting with MCTC and will continue to meet with MCTC. We should not have a problem with both wireless networks coexisting. MCTC is looking to make its wireless network internal to the school and the immediate area around it. It did not sound as though they were planning on providing for anything outside of the school grounds. TCWUG will be on the roof so we should overshoot any kind of Wi-Fi they will setup. If for some reason there is a problem with the two networks we will work around MCTC. They are donating the area and we need to and will respect their plans for wireless access. The real problem with the park is not MCTC but others around the park. The area is becoming pretty saturated with 802.11 from people around the park. Andrew _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From ben at nerp.net Sat Aug 16 13:13:56 2003 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Loring Park Coverage In-Reply-To: <002c01c36420$1c9936c0$6701a8c0@az.local> References: <002c01c36420$1c9936c0$6701a8c0@az.local> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I wonder how impossible it would be to start talking to people around the park about participating, and coordinating wireless.. get people to change channels, and maybe even help provide coverage of the park. - -ben "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." > The real problem with the park is not MCTC but others around the park. > The area is becoming pretty saturated with 802.11 from people around the > park. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/PnRsflzKmtpiQEMRAljyAJ9ggVpYb1ER0l2fS0NS9vCH6SXTKACgl6Ca +sjHGMdygLndEo4OateeZjg= =QJYc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From earl at jarosh.org Sat Aug 16 13:38:19 2003 From: earl at jarosh.org (S. Earl Jarosh) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Coverage area - request feedback - LMR - Hamfest References: <3F3D8A45.6030809@visi.com> <000b01c36399$6c7ad040$6701a8c0@az.local> <20030816104212.J27788@real-time.com> Message-ID: <002901c36425$912bcc00$6401a8c0@D32B5L01> Yes, Radio City does sell it and far more reasonable than a commerical vendor geared to the WiFi industry. They are on Highway 10 east of Highway 65 in Moundsview( look for the bldg. with the big antennas on it behind the Burger King). You can also pickup a Ham magazine like QST, CQ, 73 etc and find several mail order outfits that sell it at an even more reasonable price with access to SMA and N connectors. You can also go to a Hamfest like the one coming up in St Cloud on Aug 23rd or the really Big One (Hamfest MN) that will be at the River Center in late October. The one in October will have several Discount vendors selling Cable, Antennas, and Connectors for use in the WiFi arena. Hams are cheap and rarely pay much over wholesale. If anyone is interested I can post more complete information about the upcoming events. I handle the mailing list for Hamfest MN and we will be mailing the flyers about 9/1/2003 so if you would like a flyer, Email me your mailing address and I will put you on the mailing list. S. Earl Jarosh N0HZ (ex. KA0VYB) 612-868-1313 Money Centers of America V.P. of Information Technology earl@jarosh.org earljarosh@moneycenters.com www.moneycenters.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom" To: Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Coverage area - request feedback > > Does anyone know of a local LMR provider? I've tried contacting First > > Mile Wireless in Blaine with no response. > > I was under the impression that Radio City sold it. I don't know their > address off hand tho. > > Carl Soderstrom. > -- > Systems Administrator > Real-Time Enterprises > www.real-time.com > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From thom at gmx.info Sat Aug 16 14:48:53 2003 From: thom at gmx.info (Thomas Bohn) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] New in Minneapolis Message-ID: Hello, My name is Thomas Bohn. I will come to Minneapolis on Tuesday and stay there for a year. The reason is simple, I do my foreign study in Minneapolis at the Metrostate. Now I want to know more about the wireless situation in Twin Cities. Thomas _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From nkras at visi.com Sat Aug 16 17:15:41 2003 From: nkras at visi.com (Neal Krasnoff) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Loring Park Coverage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2C6A30B2-D037-11D7-ABF3-000A958B32EC@visi.com> After we get the APs on line, we'll have to let the neighborhood know, along with Skyway News and the Southwest Journal, and put up notices in establishments adjoining the Park. Then we should see a jump in involvement. Neal On Saturday, August 16, 2003, at 01:13 PM, Ben Kochie wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I wonder how impossible it would be to start talking to people around > the > park about participating, and coordinating wireless.. get people to > change > channels, and maybe even help provide coverage of the park. > > - -ben _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From nkras at visi.com Sat Aug 16 20:06:51 2003 From: nkras at visi.com (Neal Krasnoff) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:56 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Loring Park project: antennas ordered In-Reply-To: <002801c363f7$a545c1b0$6701a8c0@az.local> Message-ID: <15E0285A-D04F-11D7-ABF3-000A958B32EC@visi.com> From Fab-Corp: ARC Wireless 8.5 dBi Panel Antenna: * Frequency 2400 - 2485 MHz * 60 Degree Beamwidth * Vertical & Horizontal Polarization * VSWR 1.5:1 * N Female Pigtail * Square 5.15 X 5.15 X .82 Inches Price: $ 39.99 Pacific Wireless 14 dBi Echo Series Backfire Antenna * 2400 - 2483 MHz * 14 dBi Gain * Aesthetic design * N female connector Price: $ 47.00 ------ Instead of using an omni and trying to determine whether or not to order a 7 degree downtilt antenna, thereby wasting the signal in the opposite direction, I specified the 8.5 dbi panel. We'll be able to manually downtilt the signal as required. The parabolic has a better front to back ratio than the equivalent yagi. Neal _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From kaze0010 at umn.edu Sun Aug 17 04:01:18 2003 From: kaze0010 at umn.edu (Haudy Kazemi) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:57 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] 1. Saint Paul campus access point (BioSci), and 2. multipolar antennas Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20030817040118.01758b98@kaze0010.email.umn.edu> Hello, I'm new to this list but I do recognize a handful of names from other circles I'm in. Anyway, to get some context and list background, I was looking through the list archives and saw an April discussion by Ben Kochie and Chad Walstrom (among others) about an access point on Biosci. http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/2003-April/001391.html http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/2003-April/001392.html Does anyone know if this has panned out, and if it has, if there are any access requirements (registration, University folks only, etc.)? Second topic: has anyone heard of or used the 'multipolar' antennas that www.wifi-plus.com is advertising for 2.4ghz? They have several models, up to 22 dbi gain, and they claim to work much better than regular antennas in situations with obstructions (trees, etc.). They have a message board too but it has not been up very long so there are a limited number of postings on it. The message board does contain positive postings. I did look into the folks behind these antennas, and its looks like the same guys who were creating the Nil-Jon antennas used for lower frequency bands. Googling found me several positive, apparantly independent, references to the Nil-Jon antennas. I couldn't find any reviews or comments on their newer 2.4ghz designs other than what is on their site. I did speak to two of the guys behind wifi-plus and they said it is such a new design to the market that reviews on this product in particular haven't come out yet. That's all for now :) Later, Haudy Kazemi "The Net treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore "Government is like a fire, useful in the fireplace, but if it gets out of it's place, it will consume everything you own." - George Washington _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From ben at nerp.net Sun Aug 17 13:06:44 2003 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:57 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] 1. Saint Paul campus access point (BioSci), and 2. multipolar antennas In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20030817040118.01758b98@kaze0010.email.umn.edu> References: <3.0.5.32.20030817040118.01758b98@kaze0010.email.umn.edu> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm still working on the St. Paul campus AP. I'm waiting to hear back from the Facilities people over there.. They are going to install our antenna mast. Hopefully sometime soon. 802.11b chips are designed to handle diversity antennas.. aka, more than one antenna. Designing an anteanna to recive a variety of polarization should help. but this also has the disadvantage that you are listening to more background noise. the reason a lot of outdoor wireless stuff is very polarized, is to help reject background noise, and reduce the noise floor. these antennas would be interesting to try in comparison to standard setups. - -ben "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Sun, 17 Aug 2003, Haudy Kazemi wrote: > Hello, > > I'm new to this list but I do recognize a handful of names from other > circles I'm in. Anyway, to get some context and list background, I was > looking through the list archives and saw an April discussion by Ben Kochie > and Chad Walstrom (among others) about an access point on Biosci. > http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/2003-April/001391.html > http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/2003-April/001392.html > > Does anyone know if this has panned out, and if it has, if there are any > access requirements (registration, University folks only, etc.)? > > Second topic: has anyone heard of or used the 'multipolar' antennas that > www.wifi-plus.com is advertising for 2.4ghz? They have several models, up > to 22 dbi gain, and they claim to work much better than regular antennas in > situations with obstructions (trees, etc.). They have a message board too > but it has not been up very long so there are a limited number of postings > on it. The message board does contain positive postings. > > I did look into the folks behind these antennas, and its looks like the > same guys who were creating the Nil-Jon antennas used for lower frequency > bands. Googling found me several positive, apparantly independent, > references to the Nil-Jon antennas. I couldn't find any reviews or > comments on their newer 2.4ghz designs other than what is on their site. I > did speak to two of the guys behind wifi-plus and they said it is such a > new design to the market that reviews on this product in particular haven't > come out yet. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/P8Q2flzKmtpiQEMRApZMAJwNtKO7uya4ZTVB4sX5dykNTXNpmACdG+js ndz/QahMcB4ChId3JCBOw7Y= =FWT1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at stratvantage.com Sun Aug 17 14:40:36 2003 From: mellsworth at stratvantage.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:57 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys/Mac and WEP In-Reply-To: <009c01c36384$9c33a8d0$6401a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: <004101c364f7$6f031ac0$6401a8c0@stratlap2> Now my brother has gotten a Linksys AP and wants to use WEP with his Mac. The Linksys offers 64 or 128 bit WEP, but I believe the Mac wants 40 or 104 bit "passwords". Should he establish a 15 character key and enter those characters in as the Mac password? This Mac stuff is easy! Mike Ellsworth StratVantage Consulting, LLC Helping Successful Companies Make Winning Technology Decisions 8273 Westwood Hills Curve St. Louis Park, MN 55426 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiFiGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ellsworth Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 6:26 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Airport/XP problem "BTW - did you ever get your Airport/XP problem ironed out, if so, what was the trick ?" Nope. Haven't been back at it. But now my friend complains that the Airport keeps dropping the XP machine. And I haven't found the XP utility for the Airport due to lack of time. Mike Ellsworth StratVantage Consulting, LLC Helping Successful Companies Make Winning Technology Decisions 8273 Westwood Hills Curve St. Louis Park, MN 55426 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiFiGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Andy Warner Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 6:09 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Re: Why secure your WLAN? Mike Ellsworth wrote: > Regarding the assertion that companies don't want to know about security > vulnerabilities: > > Thirty-one percent of executives surveyed by Jupiter Research cited low > network security as the number one barrier to deployment of WLANs, their top > concern centering on rogue users accessing the corporate network from > outside the corporation. So that's 31% of the population that's unlikely to show up in your kismet log. A large proportion of the other 69% might have WLANs deployed by IT folks who are *very* unlikely to appreciate you turning up on their doorstep implicitly saying "you're incompetant" (which is how the pointy-haired types will intepret your intervention.) I agree with those that suggest that if you regard this as a problem (and there's obviously more than 1 school of thought on that); education is the answer - it's just a fairly long (and unprofitable) process. Don't look for people to answer the door with a look of grateful relief (or with their checkbook already open.) IMHO, things like kismet logs are useful at two extrememly different levels: 1. tracking down a particular problem (like the coverage of node x, the source of interference, etc.) 2. at the level of aggregated statistics (overall percentage of secure/insecure APs, rate of deployment, AP density per unit area, residential vs. commercial, making pretty maps, etc.) To me, they seem of limited use between these two extremes. BTW - did you ever get your Airport/XP problem ironed out, if so, what was the trick ? -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From dieman at ringworld.org Sun Aug 17 20:14:45 2003 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier - dieman) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:57 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: 1. Saint Paul campus access point (BioSci), and 2. multipolar antennas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003, Ben Kochie wrote: > more background noise. the reason a lot of outdoor wireless stuff is very > polarized, is to help reject background noise, and reduce the noise floor. This only really helps in LOS applications. -- Scott Dier KC0OBS http://www.ringworld.org/ Free USA from energy dependence, http://www.apolloalliance.org/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From jkotek at madgenius.com Mon Aug 18 09:04:33 2003 From: jkotek at madgenius.com (Jon Kotek) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:57 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Any experince with Netgear ME101 Message-ID: <20030818140433.M41648@madgenius.com> I just bought a ReplayTV for the bedroom and I am looking into attaching an Ethernet to wireless bridge to it (I hate running cables) I have heard mixed reviews about Netgear ME101 and I am wondering if anyone on here has had experince with it. I found it on Amazon for 59 bucks which is alot better then the 139 for the LinkSys ethernet bridge. Thanks! Jon _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From andrew at azimmer.com Mon Aug 18 09:41:00 2003 From: andrew at azimmer.com (Andrew Zimmer) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:57 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Any experince with Netgear ME101 In-Reply-To: <20030818140433.M41648@madgenius.com> Message-ID: <000c01c36596$be8346c0$6701a8c0@az.local> For something like this you would not necessarily need a bridge. An Access Point would work just as well. The bridges are good if you need something smaller than an Accees Point. If you are going use it primarily in the house, the Access Point can be considerably cheaper. Andrew > -----Original Message----- > From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On > Behalf Of Jon Kotek > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 9:05 AM > To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org > Subject: [TCWUG] Any experince with Netgear ME101 > > > > I just bought a ReplayTV for the bedroom and I am looking into attaching > an > Ethernet to wireless bridge to it (I hate running cables) I have heard > mixed > reviews about Netgear ME101 and I am wondering if anyone on here has had > experince with it. I found it on Amazon for 59 bucks which is alot better > then the 139 for the LinkSys ethernet bridge. > > Thanks! > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From ben at nerp.net Mon Aug 18 09:42:12 2003 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:57 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Any experince with Netgear ME101 In-Reply-To: <000c01c36596$be8346c0$6701a8c0@az.local> References: <000c01c36596$be8346c0$6701a8c0@az.local> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 yep.. the D-Link DWL-900AP+ is going for around $70, and can also operate in network bridge mode. - -ben "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Andrew Zimmer wrote: > For something like this you would not necessarily need a bridge. An > Access Point would work just as well. The bridges are good if you need > something smaller than an Accees Point. If you are going use it > primarily in the house, the Access Point can be considerably cheaper. > > Andrew > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] > On > > Behalf Of Jon Kotek > > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 9:05 AM > > To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > Subject: [TCWUG] Any experince with Netgear ME101 > > > > > > > > I just bought a ReplayTV for the bedroom and I am looking into > attaching > > an > > Ethernet to wireless bridge to it (I hate running cables) I have heard > > mixed > > reviews about Netgear ME101 and I am wondering if anyone on here has > had > > experince with it. I found it on Amazon for 59 bucks which is alot > better > > then the 139 for the LinkSys ethernet bridge. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Jon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, > > Minnesota > > http://www.tcwug.org > > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/QOXGflzKmtpiQEMRAsUyAJ90ZFksaKUMtrQN/5P7bPTl8JsduwCgmpB4 lwvc8gSfOA99qpRgbB8Msv4= =HPFS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From andrew at azimmer.com Mon Aug 18 09:53:47 2003 From: andrew at azimmer.com (Andrew Zimmer) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:57 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys/Mac and WEP In-Reply-To: <004101c364f7$6f031ac0$6401a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: <000d01c36598$878cc590$6701a8c0@az.local> > Now my brother has gotten a Linksys AP and wants to use WEP with his Mac. > The Linksys offers 64 or 128 bit WEP, but I believe the Mac wants 40 or > 104 > bit "passwords". Should he establish a 15 character key and enter those > characters in as the Mac password? I Goolged and found this on the proxim web site about 40 and 64 bit WEP. It's brief and not very techie. http://www.proxim.com/support/all/skyline/technotes/tn2001-08-03.html Basically it says they are the same. You should get 10 hex numbers with 64 bit WEP and 26 hex numbers with 128 bit WEP. I'd stick to the hex numbers and not the pass-phrase that is used to create it. It's a drag to type all of the numbers and such but it sounds like some folks have had problems with some WEP key generators. You should be all right to use the pass-phrase if you stick with the same wireless manufacturer I would imagine. I've had good luck with Linksys at least. _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Mon Aug 18 10:00:23 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:57 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Any experince with Netgear ME101 In-Reply-To: <20030818140433.M41648@madgenius.com> References: <20030818140433.M41648@madgenius.com> Message-ID: <20030818150023.GG16729@autonomous.tv> On Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 08:04:33AM -0600, Jon Kotek wrote: > > >I just bought a ReplayTV for the bedroom and I am looking into attaching an >Ethernet to wireless bridge to it (I hate running cables) I have heard mixed >reviews about Netgear ME101 and I am wondering if anyone on here has had >experince with it. I found it on Amazon for 59 bucks which is alot better >then the 139 for the LinkSys ethernet bridge. One thing you may want to consider is bandwidth usage. I don't have any experience with replaytv, but I do have some experience with wifi and heavy bandwidth issues. Depending on variables such as link quality and data rate your throughput can range quite a bit. In my experience, in an ideal wifi network the maximun throughput is ~4Mbs. Of course the protocal you use to transmit the data is also a factor (http vs smb, http will be considerable faster for example). I don't have any hard and fast numbers to offer you. I just wanted to point out a couple things you may not have thought of. BTW, the DWL-900+ Ben speaks of also does 22Mbs, hence the '+', the only caveat is the lack of linux drivers for these cards. -- Linux Administrator || Technology Specialist || Wifi Engineer http://autonomous.tv/~spencer/resume/ || spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030818/9dbb0454/attachment.pgp From ben at nerp.net Mon Aug 18 10:26:12 2003 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:57 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Any experince with Netgear ME101 In-Reply-To: <20030818150023.GG16729@autonomous.tv> References: <20030818140433.M41648@madgenius.com> <20030818150023.GG16729@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > things you may not have thought of. BTW, the DWL-900+ Ben speaks of > also does 22Mbs, hence the '+', the only caveat is the lack of linux > drivers for these cards. I was speaking about this AP, which doesn't require drivers. and with the AP config, it can be locked to pure b mode. so no problems with any OS :) - -ben "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Spencer Butler wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/QPAWflzKmtpiQEMRAqIaAJsGHseu1jBnQfTr6q+O0OUXBKxH+wCfenPR Rr7hxxl0bxrLslxsqSecZe4= =keth -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From andrew at azimmer.com Mon Aug 18 10:34:19 2003 From: andrew at azimmer.com (Andrew Zimmer) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:57 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Any experince with Netgear ME101 In-Reply-To: <20030818150023.GG16729@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <001601c3659e$30c21610$6701a8c0@az.local> > BTW, the DWL-900+ Ben speaks of > also does 22Mbs, hence the '+', the only caveat is the lack of linux > drivers for these cards. This is true. You will have problems finding drivers for their USB, PCI and PCMCIA cards but usually the bridges will connect via an Ethernet jack. This is a good solution for older computers that may not support PCI or USB. You should be able to find a network card that will work with the computer and it will get you away from requiring drivers for your operating system. As far as setting up the bridge there should be some Windows drivers but you should also be able to setup the bridge via its web interface. Andrew. _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Mon Aug 18 10:37:41 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:57 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Any experince with Netgear ME101 In-Reply-To: References: <20030818140433.M41648@madgenius.com> <20030818150023.GG16729@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20030818153741.GH16729@autonomous.tv> On Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 10:26:12AM -0500, Ben Kochie wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >> things you may not have thought of. BTW, the DWL-900+ Ben speaks of >> also does 22Mbs, hence the '+', the only caveat is the lack of linux >> drivers for these cards. > >I was speaking about this AP, which doesn't require drivers. and with the >AP config, it can be locked to pure b mode. so no problems with any OS :) Yes, I realize that, and you are very much correct. I was speaking on using the 22Mbs mode for increased throughput. Which brings me to something I hadn't thought of before. If you buy two of these dwl-900+ you can solve most, if not all of your problems. Just configure the two radios in point-to-point (dlink speak) mode using the full 22Mbs setting. As long as the replaytv (or the computer it connects to) has a NIC, you are golden (you will need a XOR cable). The 900+ plus will also allow you to configure the unit to set the diversity to the external anttenna, which you can then attach an external antenna if you need one. However, if this is from downstairs to upstairs, you will probably be ok with the stock antennas. -- Linux Administrator || Technology Specialist || Wifi Engineer http://autonomous.tv/~spencer/resume/ || spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030818/ef408574/attachment.pgp From dan at omitted.net Mon Aug 18 12:21:01 2003 From: dan at omitted.net (Dan Willenbring) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:58 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys/Mac and WEP In-Reply-To: <20030818170003.6828.85838.Mailman@pirate.real-time.com> References: <20030818170003.6828.85838.Mailman@pirate.real-time.com> Message-ID: <4059.168.150.235.163.1061227261.squirrel@webmail.nerp.net> It is easy!..if you read the small amount of documentation they give you. Macs accept 64 and 128 bit hex keys, just like the rest of the world. Enter a dollar sign ($) before your hex key (that you get from your linksys AP) so it recognizes it as hex rather than a password. -- Dan Willenbring www.omitted.net dan@omitted.net > From: "Mike Ellsworth" > Now my brother has gotten a Linksys AP and wants to use WEP with his > Mac. The Linksys offers 64 or 128 bit WEP, but I believe the Mac wants > 40 or 104 bit "passwords". Should he establish a 15 character key and > enter those characters in as the Mac password? > > This Mac stuff is easy! _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at stratvantage.com Tue Aug 19 14:24:04 2003 From: mellsworth at stratvantage.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:58 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys/Mac and WEP In-Reply-To: <000d01c36598$878cc590$6701a8c0@az.local> Message-ID: <000001c36687$e08ef830$6401a8c0@stratlap2> I found a better explanation for the 40-bit/64-bit and 104-bit/128-bit key business in an Avaya manual. Now I'm finally clear. An Encryption Key is composed of the secret key (entered by the user) and a 24-bit Initialization Vector (IV). Some products report an Encryption Key Size with the IV and some report a Key Size without the IV. Therefore, 64-bit encryption is also referred to as "40-bit" encryption (without the IV), 128-bit encryption is also referred to as "104-bit" encryption (without the IV), and 152-bit encryption is also referred to as "128-bit" encryption (without the IV). Great. So 128-bit can mean two different things. That's smart. Mike Ellsworth StratVantage Consulting, LLC Helping Successful Companies Make Winning Technology Decisions 8273 Westwood Hills Curve St. Louis Park, MN 55426 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiFiGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Zimmer Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 9:54 AM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Linksys/Mac and WEP > Now my brother has gotten a Linksys AP and wants to use WEP with his Mac. > The Linksys offers 64 or 128 bit WEP, but I believe the Mac wants 40 or > 104 > bit "passwords". Should he establish a 15 character key and enter those > characters in as the Mac password? I Goolged and found this on the proxim web site about 40 and 64 bit WEP. It's brief and not very techie. http://www.proxim.com/support/all/skyline/technotes/tn2001-08-03.html Basically it says they are the same. You should get 10 hex numbers with 64 bit WEP and 26 hex numbers with 128 bit WEP. I'd stick to the hex numbers and not the pass-phrase that is used to create it. It's a drag to type all of the numbers and such but it sounds like some folks have had problems with some WEP key generators. You should be all right to use the pass-phrase if you stick with the same wireless manufacturer I would imagine. I've had good luck with Linksys at least. _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From chrome at real-time.com Tue Aug 19 14:28:55 2003 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:58 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys/Mac and WEP In-Reply-To: <000001c36687$e08ef830$6401a8c0@stratlap2>; from mellsworth@stratvantage.com on Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 02:24:04PM -0500 References: <000d01c36598$878cc590$6701a8c0@az.local> <000001c36687$e08ef830$6401a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: <20030819142855.L25220@real-time.com> On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 02:24:04PM -0500, Mike Ellsworth wrote: > Great. So 128-bit can mean two different things. That's smart. no, that's marketing. :) Carl Soderstrom. -- Systems Administrator Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From arif at visi.com Thu Aug 21 16:04:46 2003 From: arif at visi.com (arif@visi.com) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:58 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Off-topic: local vendor for compact flash to IDE adapter? Message-ID: <1061499886.3f4533ee57f80@my.visi.com> Hey folks, sorry for the off topic post, but I'm relatively new to the area and wasn't really sure where to look. I'm looking for a compact flash to ide adapter - seen a bunch online, but if I can get it locally, I'd prefer to do that. So - anyone know any places around here that might sell such things? thanks, arif _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From ben at nerp.net Thu Aug 21 16:14:19 2003 From: ben at nerp.net (Ben Kochie) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:58 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Off-topic: local vendor for compact flash to IDE adapter? In-Reply-To: <1061499886.3f4533ee57f80@my.visi.com> References: <1061499886.3f4533ee57f80@my.visi.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I've ordered from this place: http://www.mesanet.com/ - -ben "Unix is user friendly, Its just picky about its friends." On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 arif@visi.com wrote: > > > Hey folks, > sorry for the off topic post, but I'm relatively new to the area and wasn't > really sure where to look. I'm looking for a compact flash to ide adapter - > seen a bunch online, but if I can get it locally, I'd prefer to do that. So - > anyone know any places around here that might sell such things? > > thanks, > arif > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD4DBQE/RTYtflzKmtpiQEMRAsqoAKCbi5bmR+OPAwzuB/sr7XnbD1mhDgCUDimp 6/824fdIMgXoT5oZ5keWww== =Mn2b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From kaze0010 at umn.edu Thu Aug 21 16:39:51 2003 From: kaze0010 at umn.edu (Haudy Kazemi) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:58 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] making antennas; local vendors for N connectors and LMR 100/195/400 cable In-Reply-To: References: <1061499886.3f4533ee57f80@my.visi.com> <1061499886.3f4533ee57f80@my.visi.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20030821163951.0178f648@kaze0010.email.umn.edu> Hello, I'm looking into making some cantennas like these: http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/has.html Anyone familiar with good local vendors for the N-female chassis mount connector used in this project? How about LMR 100, LMR 195, or especially LMR 400 cable? Thanks -Haudy "The Net treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore "Government is like a fire, useful in the fireplace, but if it gets out of it's place, it will consume everything you own." - George Washington _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Aug 22 18:28:08 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:58 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Loring park map Message-ID: <20030822232808.GX13598@techmonkeys.org> http://www.poptix.net/tcwug.png -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Fri Aug 22 19:36:17 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:58 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Loring park map In-Reply-To: <20030822232808.GX13598@techmonkeys.org> References: <20030822232808.GX13598@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20030823003617.GJ29442@autonomous.tv> On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 06:28:08PM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: >http://www.poptix.net/tcwug.png Can you also whip up a propagation map as well? :) -- Linux Administrator || Technology Specialist || Wifi Engineer http://autonomous.tv/~spencer/resume/ || spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030822/6996d6ab/attachment.pgp From spencer at autonomous.tv Fri Aug 22 19:41:54 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:58 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Loring park map In-Reply-To: <20030823003617.GJ29442@autonomous.tv> References: <20030822232808.GX13598@techmonkeys.org> <20030823003617.GJ29442@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20030823004154.GK29442@autonomous.tv> On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 07:36:17PM -0500, Spencer Butler wrote: >On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 06:28:08PM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: >>http://www.poptix.net/tcwug.png >Can you also whip up a propagation map as well? :) I guess what I really meant to ask, is can you whip up a signal strength or signal/noise ratio map, that is obviously a propagation map. -- Linux Administrator || Technology Specialist || Wifi Engineer http://autonomous.tv/~spencer/resume/ || spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030822/fe217e8c/attachment.pgp From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sat Aug 23 00:00:00 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:58 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Loring park map In-Reply-To: <20030823004154.GK29442@autonomous.tv> References: <20030822232808.GX13598@techmonkeys.org> <20030823003617.GJ29442@autonomous.tv> <20030823004154.GK29442@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20030823050000.GY13598@techmonkeys.org> http://www.poptix.net/tcwug-power.png On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 07:41:54PM -0500, Spencer Butler wrote: > I guess what I really meant to ask, is can you whip up a signal > strength or signal/noise ratio map, that is obviously a propagation map. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030823/f15c07e6/attachment.pgp From spencer at autonomous.tv Sat Aug 23 10:48:07 2003 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (Spencer Butler) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:58 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Loring park map In-Reply-To: <20030823050000.GY13598@techmonkeys.org> References: <20030822232808.GX13598@techmonkeys.org> <20030823003617.GJ29442@autonomous.tv> <20030823004154.GK29442@autonomous.tv> <20030823050000.GY13598@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20030823154807.GM29442@autonomous.tv> On Sat, Aug 23, 2003 at 12:00:00AM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: >http://www.poptix.net/tcwug-power.png Now *thats* a map! > >On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 07:41:54PM -0500, Spencer Butler wrote: >> I guess what I really meant to ask, is can you whip up a signal >> strength or signal/noise ratio map, that is obviously a propagation map. -- Linux Administrator || Technology Specialist || Wifi Engineer http://autonomous.tv/~spencer/resume/ || spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030823/5f38a37d/attachment.pgp From nkras at visi.com Sat Aug 23 11:00:26 2003 From: nkras at visi.com (Neal Krasnoff) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:59 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Loring park map In-Reply-To: <20030823154807.GM29442@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: Whoa - now that's a dense environment.... :-s On Saturday, August 23, 2003, at 10:48 AM, Spencer Butler wrote: >> http://www.poptix.net/tcwug-power.png _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From nkras at visi.com Sat Aug 23 11:04:07 2003 From: nkras at visi.com (Neal Krasnoff) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:59 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Minneapolis e-democracy postings Message-ID: <6CF4D0D2-D583-11D7-BD26-000A958B32EC@visi.com> From the mpls list, and my response and invitation: From: "John Erwin" Date: Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:14:54 AM US/Central To: Subject: [Mpls] RE: WI-FI through the Parks Hello Folks, Just wanted to let you know that I initiated a process where the Minneapolis Park System would start exploring providing WI-FI internet access to Minneapolis citizens through the park system. The Park Board approved my motion to initiate exploring providing WI-FI through recreation centers with a unanimous vote. Annie Young has also been particularly supportive of this effort. A few things came together at once that spurred this on: 1) I remember Phyllis Kahn suggesting such an idea awhile ago, 2) my new portable computer and many other new ones are now sold 'wireless ready' (times have clearly changed), and 3) routers now have a distance of 3.5 kilometers. The increase in router range now allows complete coverage of Minneapolis from Park Recreation Centers (Minneapolis has 49 recreation centers). Minneapolis is unique in that it has a grid of recreation centers all with active web capabilities. We also recognize that there will likely be some cost for this service to users. I envision interested Minneapolis residents purchasing an annual password that would enable internet access at their local recreation center for a nominal fee. Clearly, other organizations should and would be part of this. For instance, the School Board, I imagine, would be interested. In addition, the mayor has clearly identified an interest in this for some time and is also exploring this area. Lastly, the Green Institute may have an interest in participating. However, the Park Board already has the physical infrastructure to mount the routers on. My hope is that such an effort would make web access more affordable and accessible in Minneapolis while decreasing some infrastructure costs in city/park/school government facilities. Thus, the average citizen with other forms of internet access would likely save money. Lastly, we would have access anywhere, backyard, cars, parks, etc. There is some precedent for this. Paris just initiated WI-FI service about 3-4 weeks ago. Also, it is my understanding that Buffalo, Minnesota and Chaska, Minnesota both are initiating such a service as well. Let me know your thoughts/concerns/ideas! (erwin001@umn.edu). Sincerely, John Erwin Commissioner At-Large Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board ------From: "N.I. Krasnov" Date: Fri Aug 22, 2003 6:06:06 PM US/Central To: John Erwin , Subject: Re: [Mpls] RE: WI-FI through the Parks on 8/22/03 9:14 AM, John Erwin at erwin001@umn.edu wrote: > Hello Folks, > > Just wanted to let you know that I initiated a process where the > Minneapolis Park System would start exploring providing WI-FI internet > access to Minneapolis citizens through the park system. The Park Board > approved my motion to initiate exploring providing WI-FI through > recreation centers with a unanimous vote. Annie Young has also been > particularly supportive of this effort. We're already working on the Loring Park Project ;-) http://www.tcwug.org Our next meeting will be Tuesday, September 9th, 6:00 to 8:00 pm Dunn Bros: upstairs at the conference table. 201 3rd Avenue Minneapolis, MN 55401 N.I. Krasnov Loring Park _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sat Aug 23 17:17:39 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:59 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Loring park map In-Reply-To: References: <20030823154807.GM29442@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20030823221739.GB13598@techmonkeys.org> On Sat, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:00:26AM -0500, Neal Krasnoff wrote: > Whoa - now that's a dense environment.... :-s > That's only the power graph for the tcwug AP. http://www.poptix.net/tcwug-area.png ^- All those dots are the approximate location of an AP that was detected http://www.poptix.net/tcwug-areapower.png ^- everywhere I drove was dense, you can see where I drove quite clearly =) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Sun Aug 24 14:53:40 2003 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:59 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: [wireless] Minneapolis e-democracy postings In-Reply-To: <6CF4D0D2-D583-11D7-BD26-000A958B32EC@visi.com> References: <6CF4D0D2-D583-11D7-BD26-000A958B32EC@visi.com> Message-ID: <20030824195340.GB15445@botwerks.org> neal- thanks for the pointer, i forgot totally about the local e-democracy stuff that's been going on for quite some time. it sounds like, in reading the list archives (i just subscribed) that there's some resistance to expending tax-payer $$s on the project. however, it does seem like a good venue for letting neighborhood orgs know about some of the efforts and seems to touch on the outreach goals that were mentioned previously. when last we saw our hero (Saturday, Aug 23, 2003), Neal Krasnoff was madly tapping out: > From the mpls list, and my response and invitation: > > From: "John Erwin" > Date: Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:14:54 AM US/Central > To: > Subject: [Mpls] RE: WI-FI through the Parks > > Hello Folks, > > Just wanted to let you know that I initiated a process where the > Minneapolis Park System would start exploring providing WI-FI > internet access to Minneapolis citizens through the park system. > The Park Board approved my motion to initiate exploring providing > WI-FI through recreation centers with a unanimous vote. Annie Young > has also been particularly supportive of this effort. > > A few things came together at once that spurred this on: 1) I > remember Phyllis Kahn suggesting such an idea awhile ago, 2) my new > portable computer and many other new ones are now sold 'wireless > ready' (times have clearly changed), and 3) routers now have a > distance of 3.5 kilometers. The increase in router range now allows > complete coverage of Minneapolis from Park Recreation Centers > (Minneapolis has 49 recreation centers). Minneapolis is unique in > that it has a grid of recreation centers all with active web > capabilities. We also recognize that there will likely be some cost > for this service to users. I envision interested Minneapolis > residents purchasing an annual password that would enable internet > access at their local recreation center for a nominal fee. > > Clearly, other organizations should and would be part of this. For > instance, the School Board, I imagine, would be interested. In > addition, the mayor has clearly identified an interest in this for > some time and is also exploring this area. Lastly, the Green > Institute may have an interest in participating. However, the Park > Board already has the physical infrastructure to mount the routers > on. > > My hope is that such an effort would make web access more affordable > and accessible in Minneapolis while decreasing some infrastructure > costs in city/park/school government facilities. Thus, the average > citizen with other forms of internet access would likely save money. > Lastly, we would have access anywhere, backyard, cars, parks, etc. > > There is some precedent for this. Paris just initiated WI-FI > service about 3-4 weeks ago. Also, it is my understanding that > Buffalo, Minnesota and Chaska, Minnesota both are initiating such a > service as well. > > Let me know your thoughts/concerns/ideas! (erwin001@umn.edu). { snipped - misc previous correspondence } -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From dieman at ringworld.org Sun Aug 24 20:56:10 2003 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier - dieman) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:59 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis e-democracy postings In-Reply-To: <20030824195340.GB15445@botwerks.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Aug 2003, steve ulrich wrote: > neal- > > resistance to expending tax-payer $$s on the project. however, it > does seem like a good venue for letting neighborhood orgs know about Well, when they can't keep the libraries open... -- Scott Dier KC0OBS http://www.ringworld.org/ Free USA from energy dependence, http://www.apolloalliance.org/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at stratvantage.com Tue Aug 26 07:24:09 2003 From: mellsworth at stratvantage.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:59 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Authentication scheme that works for all equipment In-Reply-To: <6CF4D0D2-D583-11D7-BD26-000A958B32EC@visi.com> Message-ID: <006a01c36bcc$f4dc13f0$6401a8c0@stratlap2> Does anyone know of a decent authentication scheme that will work with everything? The ones I know about require either specific hardware, or some kind of client install. I'm not opposed to a minimal client install, but would prefer something that requires nothing and works with Windows, Mac, and Linux. I'm thinking it's too early for 802.1x. Thanks. Mike Ellsworth StratVantage Consulting, LLC Helping Successful Companies Make Winning Technology Decisions 8273 Westwood Hills Curve St. Louis Park, MN 55426 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiFiGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Neal Krasnoff Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:04 AM To: TCWUG Cc: TC UNWIRED Subject: [TCWUG] Minneapolis e-democracy postings From the mpls list, and my response and invitation: From: "John Erwin" Date: Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:14:54 AM US/Central To: Subject: [Mpls] RE: WI-FI through the Parks Hello Folks, Just wanted to let you know that I initiated a process where the Minneapolis Park System would start exploring providing WI-FI internet access to Minneapolis citizens through the park system. The Park Board approved my motion to initiate exploring providing WI-FI through recreation centers with a unanimous vote. Annie Young has also been particularly supportive of this effort. A few things came together at once that spurred this on: 1) I remember Phyllis Kahn suggesting such an idea awhile ago, 2) my new portable computer and many other new ones are now sold 'wireless ready' (times have clearly changed), and 3) routers now have a distance of 3.5 kilometers. The increase in router range now allows complete coverage of Minneapolis from Park Recreation Centers (Minneapolis has 49 recreation centers). Minneapolis is unique in that it has a grid of recreation centers all with active web capabilities. We also recognize that there will likely be some cost for this service to users. I envision interested Minneapolis residents purchasing an annual password that would enable internet access at their local recreation center for a nominal fee. Clearly, other organizations should and would be part of this. For instance, the School Board, I imagine, would be interested. In addition, the mayor has clearly identified an interest in this for some time and is also exploring this area. Lastly, the Green Institute may have an interest in participating. However, the Park Board already has the physical infrastructure to mount the routers on. My hope is that such an effort would make web access more affordable and accessible in Minneapolis while decreasing some infrastructure costs in city/park/school government facilities. Thus, the average citizen with other forms of internet access would likely save money. Lastly, we would have access anywhere, backyard, cars, parks, etc. There is some precedent for this. Paris just initiated WI-FI service about 3-4 weeks ago. Also, it is my understanding that Buffalo, Minnesota and Chaska, Minnesota both are initiating such a service as well. Let me know your thoughts/concerns/ideas! (erwin001@umn.edu). Sincerely, John Erwin Commissioner At-Large Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board ------From: "N.I. Krasnov" Date: Fri Aug 22, 2003 6:06:06 PM US/Central To: John Erwin , Subject: Re: [Mpls] RE: WI-FI through the Parks on 8/22/03 9:14 AM, John Erwin at erwin001@umn.edu wrote: > Hello Folks, > > Just wanted to let you know that I initiated a process where the > Minneapolis Park System would start exploring providing WI-FI internet > access to Minneapolis citizens through the park system. The Park Board > approved my motion to initiate exploring providing WI-FI through > recreation centers with a unanimous vote. Annie Young has also been > particularly supportive of this effort. We're already working on the Loring Park Project ;-) http://www.tcwug.org Our next meeting will be Tuesday, September 9th, 6:00 to 8:00 pm Dunn Bros: upstairs at the conference table. 201 3rd Avenue Minneapolis, MN 55401 N.I. Krasnov Loring Park _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Aug 26 08:14:08 2003 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:59 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Authentication scheme that works for all equipment In-Reply-To: <006a01c36bcc$f4dc13f0$6401a8c0@stratlap2> References: <6CF4D0D2-D583-11D7-BD26-000A958B32EC@visi.com> <006a01c36bcc$f4dc13f0$6401a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: <20030826131408.GA43244@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Tuesday, Aug 26, 2003), Mike Ellsworth was madly tapping out: > Does anyone know of a decent authentication scheme that will work with > everything? The ones I know about require either specific hardware, or some > kind of client install. I'm not opposed to a minimal client install, but > would prefer something that requires nothing and works with Windows, Mac, > and Linux. I'm thinking it's too early for 802.1x. the only mechanism(s) that will reliably work across all of the above platforms w/nominal client install would be pppoe and ipsec (available for all of the aforementioned platforms). if you really don't want a client install, you might consider using a web based portal authentication package ala nocatauth[1]. such a package will simply redirect traffic until some level of authentication takes place and then punch the appropriate holes in the firewall. { snipped - misc previous correspondence } references ---------- [1] http://www.nocat.net -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From EFBower at FrontierNet.net Tue Aug 26 12:06:44 2003 From: EFBower at FrontierNet.net (Earl Bower) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:59 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] OMNI-DIRECTNAL Antenna Loan Message-ID: <000801c36bf4$6dd406b0$d63eadcf@bower> We are trying to set up a small neighborhood wi-fi net. We have a WAP11 and a WUSB11 hooked up but they dont have any range without an external antenna. If possible we would lkie to try a few different configurations by borrowing several antenna to try. Do you have any that we could borrow for a few days. Regards, Earl Bower, EFBower@FrontierNet.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20030826/857a2646/attachment.htm From dieman at ringworld.org Tue Aug 26 13:05:12 2003 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier - dieman) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:59 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Authentication scheme that works for all equipment In-Reply-To: <006a01c36bcc$f4dc13f0$6401a8c0@stratlap2> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Mike Ellsworth wrote: > Does anyone know of a decent authentication scheme that will work with > everything? The ones I know about require either specific hardware, or some > kind of client install. I'm not opposed to a minimal client install, but > would prefer something that requires nothing and works with Windows, Mac, > and Linux. I'm thinking it's too early for 802.1x. EAP-TTLS looks like its going to to be the way to go. Give it a few more months, however. There are free clients for OSX, linux, and XP right now. -- Scott Dier KC0OBS http://www.ringworld.org/ Free USA from energy dependence, http://www.apolloalliance.org/ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From thom at gmx.info Tue Aug 26 17:35:55 2003 From: thom at gmx.info (Thomas Bohn) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:59 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Loring Park/MCTC Message-ID: Hello, Now, I'm in Minneapolis. But I can't come to the meetings of the TCWUG, because I musst to the university on Tuesday. And nobody is in the IRC channel on freenode. But I want to ask, who is the owner of the AP ANY311 at Loring Park/MCTC, it will be great if I can use it, just because I'll stay not long enough in Minneapolis to get a cheap internet access. Thomas _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From mellsworth at stratvantage.com Sat Aug 23 13:40:08 2003 From: mellsworth at stratvantage.com (Mike Ellsworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:59 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Minneapolis e-democracy postings In-Reply-To: <6CF4D0D2-D583-11D7-BD26-000A958B32EC@visi.com> Message-ID: <009c01c369a5$fa8fe340$6401a8c0@stratlap2> Um, they want passwords and a nominal fee. If so, could there be a conflict with the free TCWUG project over turf at Loring Park? Mike Ellsworth StratVantage Consulting, LLC Helping Successful Companies Make Winning Technology Decisions 8273 Westwood Hills Curve St. Louis Park, MN 55426 952-525-1584 mellsworth@stratvantage.com www.StratVantage.com www.TheWiFiGuys.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin, ~1784 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Neal Krasnoff Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:04 AM To: TCWUG Cc: TC UNWIRED Subject: [TCWUG] Minneapolis e-democracy postings From the mpls list, and my response and invitation: From: "John Erwin" Date: Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:14:54 AM US/Central To: Subject: [Mpls] RE: WI-FI through the Parks Hello Folks, Just wanted to let you know that I initiated a process where the Minneapolis Park System would start exploring providing WI-FI internet access to Minneapolis citizens through the park system. The Park Board approved my motion to initiate exploring providing WI-FI through recreation centers with a unanimous vote. Annie Young has also been particularly supportive of this effort. A few things came together at once that spurred this on: 1) I remember Phyllis Kahn suggesting such an idea awhile ago, 2) my new portable computer and many other new ones are now sold 'wireless ready' (times have clearly changed), and 3) routers now have a distance of 3.5 kilometers. The increase in router range now allows complete coverage of Minneapolis from Park Recreation Centers (Minneapolis has 49 recreation centers). Minneapolis is unique in that it has a grid of recreation centers all with active web capabilities. We also recognize that there will likely be some cost for this service to users. I envision interested Minneapolis residents purchasing an annual password that would enable internet access at their local recreation center for a nominal fee. Clearly, other organizations should and would be part of this. For instance, the School Board, I imagine, would be interested. In addition, the mayor has clearly identified an interest in this for some time and is also exploring this area. Lastly, the Green Institute may have an interest in participating. However, the Park Board already has the physical infrastructure to mount the routers on. My hope is that such an effort would make web access more affordable and accessible in Minneapolis while decreasing some infrastructure costs in city/park/school government facilities. Thus, the average citizen with other forms of internet access would likely save money. Lastly, we would have access anywhere, backyard, cars, parks, etc. There is some precedent for this. Paris just initiated WI-FI service about 3-4 weeks ago. Also, it is my understanding that Buffalo, Minnesota and Chaska, Minnesota both are initiating such a service as well. Let me know your thoughts/concerns/ideas! (erwin001@umn.edu). Sincerely, John Erwin Commissioner At-Large Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board ------From: "N.I. Krasnov" Date: Fri Aug 22, 2003 6:06:06 PM US/Central To: John Erwin , Subject: Re: [Mpls] RE: WI-FI through the Parks on 8/22/03 9:14 AM, John Erwin at erwin001@umn.edu wrote: > Hello Folks, > > Just wanted to let you know that I initiated a process where the > Minneapolis Park System would start exploring providing WI-FI internet > access to Minneapolis citizens through the park system. The Park Board > approved my motion to initiate exploring providing WI-FI through > recreation centers with a unanimous vote. Annie Young has also been > particularly supportive of this effort. We're already working on the Loring Park Project ;-) http://www.tcwug.org Our next meeting will be Tuesday, September 9th, 6:00 to 8:00 pm Dunn Bros: upstairs at the conference table. 201 3rd Avenue Minneapolis, MN 55401 N.I. Krasnov Loring Park _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From jkotek at madgenius.com Fri Aug 29 08:19:20 2003 From: jkotek at madgenius.com (Jon Kotek) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:59 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Update on using a ReplayTV with wireless Message-ID: <20030829131920.M77264@madgenius.com> Last week I had posted questions about using Netgear's ME101 wireless bridge for this application. Well I was able to set it up and it is working however since I had a ReplayTV in my living room I wanted to watch shows on that machine on my new one. Well I started watching "Family Guy" and it would get choppy and cut out to the point of annoying my wife. So now I have ordered a D-link bridge and an access point (so I can run 22Mb) Hopefully doubling my bandwidth should fix this. If that don't work I am going to try a wireless-G solution next. Jon _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Aug 29 14:23:58 2003 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:33:59 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Update on using a ReplayTV with wireless In-Reply-To: <20030829131920.M77264@madgenius.com> References: <20030829131920.M77264@madgenius.com> Message-ID: <20030829192358.GW13598@techmonkeys.org> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 07:19:20AM -0600, Jon Kotek wrote: > > So now I have ordered a D-link bridge and an access point (so I can run > 22Mb) Hopefully doubling my bandwidth should fix this. If that don't work I > am going to try a wireless-G solution next. > The DI-624 (802.11g) access point + 4 port switch is only $10 more than the DI-614+ (802.11b+) at best buy, i'd go ahead and do that while they're still on sale =) > Jon -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list