as an aside - the list subscription process appears to require administrative approval. this is required even for the announcement list. my concern here is that there are some organizations that want to make sure that we have an open and interactive user group that is really flourishing. in turn they will give us good discounts on things and help us to interface with other user groups that may be doing the same thing. would it be possible to open up the mailing list to allow anyone to subscribe (using the appropriate verification mechanisms that mailman provides) without requiring administrative interaction? this gives the impression that the group is more closed than it really is. obviously if there are instances of spammers or abuse of the list these offenders should be handled appropriately but it would be nice to easily facilitate the insertion of new members without additional overhead. -- steve ulrich sulrich at botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC