From wirelessguyinstpaul at attbi.com Sat Jun 1 18:06:03 2002 From: wirelessguyinstpaul at attbi.com (P Sheehy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys WAP11 - Taking "the plunge" References: <20020531234242.GA21257@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <3CF94DFF.7D0F8B9C@attbi.com> 1. I'm ready to set up an AP. Have one wireless client set up. Have high speed internet access. 2. Would love to get a Cisco Aironet 350 series but ... the price is just a little up there. 3. The word I'm getting is that the WAP11 is a good low-price choice. 4. Before I take the plunge ... anyone have any last words of advice? 5. Anybody have or know of any great deals that I don't want to pass up? Thanks in advance for your help. P. Sheehy From chrise at pobox.com Sat Jun 1 20:05:22 2002 From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys WAP11 - Taking "the plunge" In-Reply-To: <3CF94DFF.7D0F8B9C@attbi.com>; from wirelessguyinstpaul@attbi.com on Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 05:43:11PM -0500 References: <20020531234242.GA21257@ringworld.org> <3CF94DFF.7D0F8B9C@attbi.com> Message-ID: <20020601200238.D27832@n0jcf.net> On Saturday (06/01/2002 at 05:43PM -0500), P Sheehy wrote: > 1. I'm ready to set up an AP. Have one wireless client set up. Have high > speed internet access. > 2. Would love to get a Cisco Aironet 350 series but ... the price is just a > little up there. > 3. The word I'm getting is that the WAP11 is a good low-price choice. > 4. Before I take the plunge ... anyone have any last words of advice? > 5. Anybody have or know of any great deals that I don't want to pass up? > > Thanks in advance for your help. If you can find the previous generation of WAP11 (I guess it would likely be used), I'd opt for that myself. We have been running the "new" model... version 2.2 WAP11 at work and have some problems with it. Roughly every two days, it goes off the air. It doesn't really crash because you can still access its management interface from the ethernet side... but it most definitely stops making any RF as all of the clients go to a no signal state. We have to either power cycle it or go to the SETUP screen of the management interface and re-apply the same settings (ie, just click on the APPLY button without re-entering anything) to bring it back to life. Linksys has no official firmware upgrade for it yet. I have discussed the problem with them and obtained a BETA firmware which I was told to "see if this makes it better". There were no comments about this firmware specifically addressing the problem though and unfortunately, I have been unable to try it yet since the unit is the only AP in the office and some folks are a little gun shy of firmware upgrades after our Cisco 340 AP was sent to NeverNeverLand looking for Toto and Auntie Em by an errant firmware upgrade a while ago. I think all of the positive reviews of the WAP11 are based on the previous generation. You'll notice that Linksys isn't too overt about mentioning that the current model is a TOTALLY different design than the previous one... they still call it a WAP11 with a subtle v2.2 stuck somewhere on the box. I would have prefered a new model number myself-- maybe WAP11b or WAP11-2 or some such. Chris -- Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise From andyw at pobox.com Sun Jun 2 20:40:10 2002 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <000401c208fb$42012520$2802a8c0@SECURITY>; from joel@helgeson.com on Fri, May 31, 2002 at 06:31:14PM -0500 References: <000401c208fb$42012520$2802a8c0@SECURITY> Message-ID: <20020602202640.A7820@florence.linkmargin.com> Joel R. Helgeson wrote: > I'd be happy to deliver a presentation on security if you'd like. I'm > thinking of a pared down version of the one I gave at the strictly > business expo. The subject is securing your wireless network. There wasn't much about Linux in the one I watched. Unless you're going to explore using open1x/xsupplicant, even then 802.1x isn't really very interesting to your average geek-home/open-network (at least as far as I can tell.) -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 From dieman at ringworld.org Sun Jun 2 22:31:30 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Speaker for next TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <20020602202640.A7820@florence.linkmargin.com> References: <000401c208fb$42012520$2802a8c0@SECURITY> <20020602202640.A7820@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <20020603024249.GG21257@ringworld.org> * Andy Warner [020602 20:43]: > going to explore using open1x/xsupplicant, even then 802.1x isn't oo. and eap/tls is in openradius now. Perhaps I can play with this tonight after I'm done with my contract work and have some fun. :) -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From dieman at ringworld.org Sun Jun 2 22:32:43 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Speaker for next TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <20020602202640.A7820@florence.linkmargin.com> References: <000401c208fb$42012520$2802a8c0@SECURITY> <20020602202640.A7820@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <20020603030021.GH21257@ringworld.org> * Andy Warner [020602 20:43]: > going to explore using open1x/xsupplicant, even then 802.1x isn't open1x doesn't seem to be ready for prime time just yet unless im missing major parts of the source in my onceover here. xsupplicant looks cool, however. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ From brent at nordist.net Mon Jun 3 07:44:02 2002 From: brent at nordist.net (Brent J. Nordquist) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:00 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys WAP11 - Taking "the plunge" In-Reply-To: <20020601200238.D27832@n0jcf.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Chris Elmquist wrote: > On Saturday (06/01/2002 at 05:43PM -0500), P Sheehy wrote: > > 3. The word I'm getting is that the WAP11 is a good low-price choice. > > 4. Before I take the plunge ... anyone have any last words of advice? > > If you can find the previous generation of WAP11 (I guess it would > likely be used), I'd opt for that myself. > > We have been running the "new" model... version 2.2 WAP11 at work and > have some problems with it. > > Roughly every two days, it goes off the air. It doesn't really crash > because you can still access its management interface from the ethernet > side... but it most definitely stops making any RF as all of the clients > go to a no signal state. I have the v2.2 WAP11 also. I haven't had Chris' problem (mine's been up for 3-4 weeks straight), but I am having a different strange problem -- when I try to pump lots of data through it the TCP connection will hang. Subsequent new connections are handled fine, and SSH terminal sessions will stay up for hours with no problem. I'm wondering if it's a problem with packet or frame size; going to try some testing this week and try to narrow it down. I was hoping for a magical firmware fix also, but as Chris said, none available yet. I'm really happy with the feature set of the model, and the price is right. We'll see whether this little wrinkle gets worked out. -- Brent J. Nordquist N0BJN Other contact information: http://www.nordist.net/contact.html From brent at nordist.net Mon Jun 3 07:54:32 2002 From: brent at nordist.net (Brent J. Nordquist) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] mailing list subscription... In-Reply-To: <20020531150421.H16782@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 May 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > Quoting steve ulrich (sulrich@botwerks.org): > > > it would be nice > > to easily facilitate the insertion of new members without additional > > overhead. > > spambots are smart and we have had problem on the tclug-list, Mailman has two separate checks: one is "approval" meaning a human (the list admin) has to OK it (which can introduce significant delay); the other is "confirm" which means the person has to return an email to prove the email address isn't fake, and that they control the mailbox where mail is delivered. Those two features can be enabled separately or in combination. Most Internet lists I'm on only require "confirm" not "approval"; if the TCWUG list did that there wouldn't be a posting delay for people who wanted to post their question at 3AM. -- Brent J. Nordquist N0BJN Other contact information: http://www.nordist.net/contact.html From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Jun 3 13:20:26 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] mailing list subscription... In-Reply-To: References: <20020531150421.H16782@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020603141742.GA85657@botwerks.org> until recently (after my query on this matter) this list required "approval". the confirmation requirement is a no brainer. i believe that bob's comments were directed at the spambots being able to handle the confirmation process. when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 03, 2002), Brent J. Nordquist was madly tapping out: > On Fri, 31 May 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > > > Quoting steve ulrich (sulrich@botwerks.org): > > > > > it would be nice > > > to easily facilitate the insertion of new members without additional > > > overhead. > > > > spambots are smart and we have had problem on the tclug-list, > > Mailman has two separate checks: one is "approval" meaning a human (the > list admin) has to OK it (which can introduce significant delay); the > other is "confirm" which means the person has to return an email to prove > the email address isn't fake, and that they control the mailbox where mail > is delivered. Those two features can be enabled separately or in > combination. > > Most Internet lists I'm on only require "confirm" not "approval"; if the > TCWUG list did that there wouldn't be a posting delay for people who > wanted to post their question at 3AM. > -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Jun 3 13:32:00 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Next meeting? In-Reply-To: <000001c2073d$cc6ed410$7e0b0a0a@SECURITY> References: <000001c2073d$cc6ed410$7e0b0a0a@SECURITY> Message-ID: <20020603153446.GB86572@botwerks.org> joel- that's correct - we're on for this tuesday at the cisco office. when last we saw our hero (Wednesday, May 29, 2002), Joel R. Helgeson was madly tapping out: > Is our next meeting scheduled for the First Tuesday of the month? > Meaning we'll be meeting at the Cisco offices again on Tuesday June 4th? > Please correct me if I'm wrong. > > -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From joel at helgeson.com Mon Jun 3 13:42:47 2002 From: joel at helgeson.com (Joel R. Helgeson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys WAP11 - Taking "the plunge" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c20b21$9ca65d10$7e0b0a0a@SECURITY> I am having the same "Hanging" problem with my Belkin wireless router. It's the 4 port Wireless Cable/DSL Gateway Router sharing jobber. (Belkin Part#F5D6230-3) It is new as of March. If I'm transferring large files or just using it over a period of time it'll hang and I have to get out of my La-Z-Boy and go upstairs, then go back down and re-start the session. It is quite annoying. I reported the problem to Belkin Tech Support (laughing). No answer. I too am hoping for a Firmware upgrade, but until then I suppose I get the exercise of running upstairs. I have learned to sit down (at my laptop) and reset the router via the web interface every two hours or so just to preemptively resolve the issue. It's a pain in the arse, but it's about what I expect from a consumer grade GPOS. Regards, Joel R. Helgeson -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Brent J. Nordquist Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 7:30 AM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Linksys WAP11 - Taking "the plunge" On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Chris Elmquist wrote: > On Saturday (06/01/2002 at 05:43PM -0500), P Sheehy wrote: > > 3. The word I'm getting is that the WAP11 is a good low-price choice. > > 4. Before I take the plunge ... anyone have any last words of advice? > > If you can find the previous generation of WAP11 (I guess it would > likely be used), I'd opt for that myself. > > We have been running the "new" model... version 2.2 WAP11 at work and > have some problems with it. > > Roughly every two days, it goes off the air. It doesn't really crash > because you can still access its management interface from the ethernet > side... but it most definitely stops making any RF as all of the clients > go to a no signal state. I have the v2.2 WAP11 also. I haven't had Chris' problem (mine's been up for 3-4 weeks straight), but I am having a different strange problem -- when I try to pump lots of data through it the TCP connection will hang. Subsequent new connections are handled fine, and SSH terminal sessions will stay up for hours with no problem. I'm wondering if it's a problem with packet or frame size; going to try some testing this week and try to narrow it down. I was hoping for a magical firmware fix also, but as Chris said, none available yet. I'm really happy with the feature set of the model, and the price is right. We'll see whether this little wrinkle gets worked out. -- Brent J. Nordquist N0BJN Other contact information: http://www.nordist.net/contact.html _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From brent at nordist.net Mon Jun 3 15:36:53 2002 From: brent at nordist.net (Brent J. Nordquist) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] mailing list subscription... In-Reply-To: <20020603141742.GA85657@botwerks.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, steve ulrich wrote: > until recently (after my query on this matter) this list required > "approval". the confirmation requirement is a no brainer. i believe > that bob's comments were directed at the spambots being able to handle > the confirmation process. I wasn't sure if that was what he meant, but if so, I'm wondering (a) how many spambots can use that trick (and why don't I see spam on all the lists I'm on that only require a confirm), and (b) your question about what process the human uses before approving (that will be effective in excluding spambots and letting real people through). -- Brent J. Nordquist N0BJN Other contact information: http://www.nordist.net/contact.html From brent at nordist.net Mon Jun 3 20:25:58 2002 From: brent at nordist.net (Brent J. Nordquist) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys WAP11 - Taking "the plunge" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Brent J. Nordquist wrote: > I have the v2.2 WAP11 also. I haven't had Chris' problem (mine's been > up for 3-4 weeks straight), but I am having a different strange problem > -- when I try to pump lots of data through it the TCP connection will > hang. Subsequent new connections are handled fine, and SSH terminal > sessions will stay up for hours with no problem. I'm wondering if it's > a problem with packet or frame size; going to try some testing this week > and try to narrow it down. Well, very strange. Playing with ping reveals that "ping -s 563" works and "ping -s 564" doesn't (standard 1500 MTU). I set the MTU on both sides to the trusty 576 value and that works fine. No idea why the link should have such a low limit. -- Brent J. Nordquist N0BJN Other contact information: http://www.nordist.net/contact.html From joel at helgeson.com Mon Jun 3 21:29:37 2002 From: joel at helgeson.com (Joel R. Helgeson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys WAP11 - Taking "the plunge" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701c20b6b$1ab06810$2802a8c0@SECURITY> Is that ping anomaly happening when it is "Locked Up" or appearing to not forward traffic? -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Brent J. Nordquist Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 6:38 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Linksys WAP11 - Taking "the plunge" On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Brent J. Nordquist wrote: > I have the v2.2 WAP11 also. I haven't had Chris' problem (mine's been > up for 3-4 weeks straight), but I am having a different strange problem > -- when I try to pump lots of data through it the TCP connection will > hang. Subsequent new connections are handled fine, and SSH terminal > sessions will stay up for hours with no problem. I'm wondering if it's > a problem with packet or frame size; going to try some testing this week > and try to narrow it down. Well, very strange. Playing with ping reveals that "ping -s 563" works and "ping -s 564" doesn't (standard 1500 MTU). I set the MTU on both sides to the trusty 576 value and that works fine. No idea why the link should have such a low limit. -- Brent J. Nordquist N0BJN Other contact information: http://www.nordist.net/contact.html _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From brent at nordist.net Tue Jun 4 07:36:15 2002 From: brent at nordist.net (Brent J. Nordquist) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys WAP11 - Taking "the plunge" In-Reply-To: <000701c20b6b$1ab06810$2802a8c0@SECURITY> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Joel R. Helgeson wrote: > Is that ping anomaly happening when it is "Locked Up" or appearing to > not forward traffic? Well, again, I'm not having the same problem with my WAP11 that others are reporting. Mine has never "locked up"; I've never had to power-cycle it. It just appears that packets that are too large get (consistently) dropped, which means that TCP sessions that only use small packets (such as an interactive SSH session) work fine, but as soon as a TCP session uses a large packet, that session is no longer usable (since the retries are dropped too). Other existing and new sessions continue to work fine. By limiting the MTU I no longer experience it at all. >> Well, very strange. Playing with ping reveals that "ping -s 563" works >> and "ping -s 564" doesn't (standard 1500 MTU). I set the MTU on both >> sides to the trusty 576 value and that works fine. No idea why the >> link should have such a low limit. -- Brent J. Nordquist N0BJN Other contact information: http://www.nordist.net/contact.html From jay-lists at 3pound.com Tue Jun 4 07:44:30 2002 From: jay-lists at 3pound.com (Jay) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] 7004AWBR for $99, disapponting range - good price -- keep it? Message-ID: <20020604072452.36815045.jay-lists@3pound.com> Greetings (1st post), Quick opinion poll: Couple days ago I got restless, and impulse shopped (locally): SMC 7004AWBR (802.11b, 3-port switch, NAT/Firewall/etc): $99 w/rebate SMC 2632W (802.11b, Prism2 based card): $69 To my dismay, I can barely keep a signal with the AP on the backyard deck, with me 68ft away (line of sight) at the fire pit. (The whole point of this exercise) Furthermore, indoors, if I locate the AP with the other switch and cable modem, I get a weak signal at my usual workspace .. only 30' away (granted, several walls/doors in the path). FYI, I tested every possible permuation of channel/rate/etc, results based on rx/tx, mgmt data, ping. The 7004AWBR currently retails for $140 online, $180 locally, so $99 for 3-port 10/100 switch, built in print server, serial dial-on-demand, NAT, firewall .. seems like a decent price. The card is definately going back. But the router, the rebate purchase date has expired now, and I may have current/future use for it. What would you do? ;-) My plan is to shop more discriminately and avoid anything that doesn't accept an external antenna. -Jay From wirelessguyinstpaul at attbi.com Tue Jun 4 08:34:05 2002 From: wirelessguyinstpaul at attbi.com (P Sheehy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Great Help! Can't join you tonight Message-ID: <3CFCBFE5.BD9C7F91@attbi.com> Regrettably I have to sit in a four-hour board meeting interviewing executive director candidates. I would rather join you for the TCWUG meeting over at Cisco on International Drive. It has been fascinating being on this list. What an impressive bunch of geeks (and I hope you all take that as a high compliment)! This is a varied group. People want different things. I hope we can coalesce around the idea of building wireless access for the masses. It's very cool ... maybe even a little revolutionary. There is no reason we can't be as good as Portland or Seattle or New York City. I look forward to hearing about tonight's meeting. P. Sheehy From andyw at pobox.com Tue Jun 4 09:48:05 2002 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys WAP11 - Taking "the plunge" In-Reply-To: ; from brent@nordist.net on Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 06:46:30AM -0500 References: <000701c20b6b$1ab06810$2802a8c0@SECURITY> Message-ID: <20020604094008.C12865@florence.linkmargin.com> Brent J. Nordquist wrote: > On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Joel R. Helgeson wrote: > > > Is that ping anomaly happening when it is "Locked Up" or appearing to > > not forward traffic? > > Well, again, I'm not having the same problem with my WAP11 that others are > reporting. Mine has never "locked up"; I've never had to power-cycle it. > > It just appears that packets that are too large get (consistently) > dropped, which means that TCP sessions that only use small packets (such > as an interactive SSH session) work fine, but as soon as a TCP session > uses a large packet, that session is no longer usable (since the retries > are dropped too). Other existing and new sessions continue to work fine. > By limiting the MTU I no longer experience it at all. Does either the AP or the PC card have the RTS/CTS setting enabled ? If so, what's the packet size set to ? Why are you not using a 1500 byte (e.g. ethernet) mtu ? -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 From andyw at pobox.com Tue Jun 4 10:11:10 2002 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] 7004AWBR for $99, disapponting range - good price -- keep it? In-Reply-To: <20020604072452.36815045.jay-lists@3pound.com>; from jay-lists@3pound.com on Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 07:24:52AM -0500 References: <20020604072452.36815045.jay-lists@3pound.com> Message-ID: <20020604093031.A12865@florence.linkmargin.com> Jay wrote: > Greetings (1st post), > > Quick opinion poll: > > Couple days ago I got restless, and impulse shopped (locally): > > SMC 7004AWBR (802.11b, 3-port switch, NAT/Firewall/etc): $99 w/rebate > SMC 2632W (802.11b, Prism2 based card): $69 > > To my dismay, I can barely keep a signal with the AP on the backyard > deck, with me 68ft away (line of sight) at the fire pit. (The whole > point of this exercise) > > Furthermore, indoors, if I locate the AP with the other switch and cable > modem, I get a weak signal at my usual workspace .. only 30' away > (granted, several walls/doors in the path). Do you have another client card you can test with ? I've used 7004AWBRs before and their performance hasn't been as bad as you report. I have never used SMC client cards, because I've heard poor stories of their performance. I have a Orinoco silver card that I could lend you to play compare/contrast. Will you be at tonight's meeting ? Your email does highlight another interesting point - that these high-functionality combo AP/firewall/print-server/toothbrush/ switch units aren't always the right choice. Often, the optimal location for an AP is not the optimal place for the rest of the functions. -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 From jay-lists at 3pound.com Tue Jun 4 14:25:39 2002 From: jay-lists at 3pound.com (Jay) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] 7004AWBR for $99, disapponting range - good price -- keep it? In-Reply-To: <20020604093031.A12865@florence.linkmargin.com> References: <20020604072452.36815045.jay-lists@3pound.com> <20020604093031.A12865@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <20020604142352.3a9dcbf7.jay-lists@3pound.com> On Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:30:31 -0500 Andy Warner wrote: > Do you have another client card you can test with ? I've used > 7004AWBRs before and their performance hasn't been as bad as > you report. I have never used SMC client cards, because I've > heard poor stories of their performance. > > I have a Orinoco silver card that I could lend you to > play compare/contrast. Will you be at tonight's meeting ? > > Your email does highlight another interesting point - that > these high-functionality combo AP/firewall/print-server/toothbrush/ > switch units aren't always the right choice. Often, the optimal > location for an AP is not the optimal place for the rest of > the functions. > -- > Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 Actually, I just joined the list 10 minutes before posting ;-) If not for P. Sheehy's post, I wouldn't have known about it. That's a generous offer, but I'm not sure I can make the meeting on short notice. Second card? No, this gear was my plunge into wireless. I plan to pick up an Orinoco silver ASAP (good Linux vibe, external antenna .. albeit proprietary connector). Truth be told, my test was with a 2632W V.2 (Prism 2.5 based), under W98. I later swapped that for the older 2632W for better Linux compat. I agree on the AP/toothbrush point, I went in looking for the SMC 2655W expecting to pay $159.99 (CompUSA) and then saw the 7004AWBR at $99 after rebate. Based on the packaging, they seemed quite similar, I see the data sheets tell a slightly different story: 2655W: Output Power: +15dBm (minimum) 50 mW (maximum) Sensitivity: Min.-76dBm for 11 Mbps @BER 10E-5; Min.-80dBm for 5.5/2/1 Mbps @BER 10E-5 7004AWBR: Output Power: >+13dBm Receive sensitivity: Min. -76dBm for 11Mbps; Min. -80dBm for 5.5/2/1 Mbps ; (@BER 10E-5) Location? I can live with mounting it near a window, if necessary ;-) In the last few hours, I'm leaning towards keeping the 7004AWBR (given the price) and using it at a different location .. which still leaves me in need of an AP at home. -- p.s. I called SMC support to verify the V.2 was a Prism 2.5 (google is nearly void of "2632W-V2" and "2632 V.2") and told him my 68' story. He was anything but surprised and went on to say "Yea, those numbers [on the box] .. they pretty much test 'em in a vacuum." Stay tuned .. -Jay From andyw at pobox.com Tue Jun 4 15:27:39 2002 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Special Interest Groups redux. Message-ID: <20020604150235.A13939@florence.linkmargin.com> Just in time for tonight's meeting (I hope), here's the tabulation of my roll-call for people interested in working towards the two broad goals of an independant metro wireless network, and coordinated hotspot deployment. I had to interpolate some replies, so apologies in advance for any mistakes. Perhaps these groups can take some time to get together at/after tonight's meeting. 1. A metro-wide network, capable of moving bits independant of existing wired networks. The goal is to create a stand-alone, free, network capable of moving large numbers of bits around the Twin Cities; including areas where broad-band is not a viable option. This network may host services such as ftp servers, gaming servers, etc etc. Dan Taylor Scott Dier Erik Jacobson Mike Bresnahan 2. Coordinated hot-spot deployment. The goal is to provide wireless Internet access throughout the Twin Cities. Upstream connection from the hot-spot to the Internet may be wired or wireless. Provide a common authentication interface, and standardised client configs. Dan Taylor Kent Ritchie steve ulrich Richard T Nechanicky Matthew Genelin Mike Bresnahan Andy Warner -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 From spencer at autonomous.tv Tue Jun 4 15:42:59 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:01 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Special Interest Groups redux. In-Reply-To: <20020604150235.A13939@florence.linkmargin.com> References: <20020604150235.A13939@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <20020604203758.GL22928@autonomous.tv> I would like to be involved in such an undertaking. I plan on attending the meeting tonight. I hope to gain a better understanding of what roles there are to fullfill. On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 03:02:35PM -0500, Andy Warner wrote: >Just in time for tonight's meeting (I hope), here's >the tabulation of my roll-call for people interested >in working towards the two broad goals of an independant >metro wireless network, and coordinated hotspot deployment. > >I had to interpolate some replies, so apologies in advance >for any mistakes. Perhaps these groups can take some >time to get together at/after tonight's meeting. > > 1. A metro-wide network, capable of > moving bits independant of existing > wired networks. > > The goal is to create a stand-alone, > free, network capable of moving large > numbers of bits around the Twin Cities; > including areas where broad-band is not > a viable option. > > This network may host services such as > ftp servers, gaming servers, etc etc. > >Dan Taylor >Scott Dier >Erik Jacobson >Mike Bresnahan > > 2. Coordinated hot-spot deployment. > > The goal is to provide wireless Internet > access throughout the Twin Cities. Upstream > connection from the hot-spot to the Internet > may be wired or wireless. Provide a common > authentication interface, and standardised > client configs. > >Dan Taylor >Kent Ritchie >steve ulrich >Richard T Nechanicky >Matthew Genelin >Mike Bresnahan >Andy Warner > >-- >andyw@pobox.com > >Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.tcwug.org >tcwug-list@tcwug.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > -- --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020604/f3b5e0e2/attachment.pgp From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Jun 4 16:13:13 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] reminder: tcwug meeting tonight (06/04/2002) Message-ID: <20020604204243.GA3815@botwerks.org> just a reminder regarding the twin cities wireless users group meeting tonight ... previous announcement message below for your perusal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- just a reminder and open invitation to folks interested in wireless networking technology. the 2nd monthly meeting of the twin cities wireless users group is scheduled for this coming tuesday (june 4, 2002). we had an amazing turnout for our first meeting and we're looking to keep the momentum going. the twin cities wireless users group is a place to learn about wireless networking technology, an opportunity to get your hands dirty with a fun community oriented project or just meet some of the locals who are doing fun stuff in the wireless area. all with an interest are welcome. if you can't make it but you are interested in the technology you may be interested in the mailing list. more information regarding the wireless users group mailing list can be found at the following url. http://www.tcwug.org/mailinglists/ *LOGISTICS* ----------- time ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 6:30PM CDT - june 4, 2002 location ---------------------------------------------------------------------- cisco systems - bloomington office international plaza 7900 international drive suite 400 bloomington, mn 55425 directions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- from the north -------------- * take 35w south * take 494 east to the 34th avenue exit, turn right * immediately veer right and take the next right at the light onto 80th street. * take the next immediate right onto international drive. from the south -------------- just like coming from the north except you take 35w north to 494. from the (east|west) -------------------- reaching 35w and following the above directions is left as an exercise for the reader/attendee. after you make it onto international drive ... * international plaza is the large blue glass building to your left. * you may park in the ramp and take the ramp elevators to level 1. proceed through the glass doors to your right and down the lobby foyer the main bank of elevators. take the elevator to level 4 note: you will need to sign in at the guard desk and indicate that you are there for the wireless users group meeting in the cisco office in suite 400. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jun 5 01:21:59 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] mailing list server Message-ID: <20020605012051.A21923@real-time.com> The mailing list server is a very busy box. The problem is mailman's terrible implementation of an archiver called pipermail. The problem is mostly in how pipermail builds the date and thread views of an archive. For all the ugly details, http://www.mn-linux.org/search/ and search for "mailman slow" A somewhat brief explaination: First mailman hands off the archiving responsibility to pipermail. Pipermail then appends every message to a mbox file in $MAILMANHOME/archives/private/tcwug-list.mbox, this alone is nasty. Since many of the mailing list have Gb sized mbox files. (crunchy disks) Next, a cron job runs, that takes the huge mbox file above and breaks it out into "time slices", which for tcwug is monthly and shoves the the current month's postings into $MAILMANHOME/archives/private/tcwug-list/YYYY-MMM.txt. Another cron job runs, which takes the $MAILMANHOME/archives/private/tcwug-list/YYYY-MMMM.txt and gzip -9's the file. (heavy cpu load). Yet another cron job runs with takes the $MAILMANHOME/archives/private/tcwug-list.mbox file and breaks it out into the individual messages in $MAILMANHOME/archives/private/tcwug-list/YYYY-MMMM/xxxxxx.html. (crunch disk and heavy cpu load). The design is poor, the mailman group knows it. They plan a re-write of pipermail some time in the future. Even the original author of pipermail calls it crap and abandoned it. It's only supported in mailman (http://www.amk.ca/python/unmaintained/pipermail.html). Like always in the open source world, if you are a python guru, look at the code and contribute. Help fix the problem. Fixing a problem is hard. Complaining about a problem is easy. :-) *** OR **** If you are like me and think the archiving of mail message should be left to an external package and you know Java, join the Mail Portable Online Storage System on sourceforge (https://sourceforge.net/projects/mposs/). It's goal is to have functionality like Geocrawler, but open source. Random stats: The box is under load, it runs around 3.5 to 4.0 almost 24hrs a day. The box also processes a lot of mail (IMHO) May 12 - May 31: 314,013 Jun 1 - Jun 5 : 27,267 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 1 model name : Pentium Pro stepping : 9 cpu MHz : 199.437 cache size : 256 KB total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 126704 123888 2816 12 10552 25348 -/+ buffers/cache: 87988 38716 Swap: 262136 23116 239020 (Yes, it could use more RAM) -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From sulrich at botwerks.org Wed Jun 5 09:30:06 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] FWD: O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference Call for Participation Message-ID: <20020605091605.F28408@botwerks.org> all- here's some correspondence that i was asked to forward to the user group from o'reilly and associates. the mac heads amongst us might be interested. forwarded correspondence from o'reilly and associates ---------------------------------------------------------------------- O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference Call for Participation-- Proposals Due June 14, 2002 O'Reilly & Associates invites the submission of tutorial and session proposals for the first-ever O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference, taking place at the Westin Santa Clara in Santa Clara, CA from September 30 to October 3, 2002. We're looking for proposals that bring state-of-the-art Mac OS X content to programmers, developers, technical staff, and power users from Mac, Java, Web, and open source communities. Topics include migration issues, must-have tools, servers and networking, wireless, Project Builder, Apache, PHP, Perl, Terminal application, databases, languages, Development Frameworks, and iApps. Submitting Proposals Proposals need not be works of art--a thoughtful summary or abstract of the talk you plan to give is sufficient for consideration. We prefer outlines for tutorials. The proposal is what the conference committee uses to select speakers, so give the committee enough information to understand the topic you're covering. Individuals and companies interested in making presentations, giving a tutorial, or participating in panel discussions are invited to submit proposals using this form: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/macosx2002/create/e_sess Proposals will be considered in two categories: tutorials and conference presentations (sessions). Important Dates: Proposals Due: June 14, 2002 Speaker Notification: June 20, 2002 For Mac OS X Conference information see: http://conferences.oreilly.com/macosxcon/ -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From dieman at ringworld.org Wed Jun 5 11:48:52 2002 From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: FWD: O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference Call for Participation In-Reply-To: <20020605091605.F28408@botwerks.org> References: <20020605091605.F28408@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <20020605143413.GX21257@ringworld.org> * steve ulrich [020605 09:33]: > here's some correspondence that i was asked to forward to the > user group from o'reilly and associates. the mac heads amongst us Start a mac list then. -- Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ 01:00 LILO IS REALLY DIANORA 01:00 DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE From poptix at techmonkeys.org Wed Jun 5 13:49:04 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots Message-ID: <20020605134203.C10820@techmonkeys.org> Anyone with a hotspot that's open to the public please send me the following: Street Address or GPS Coordinates SSID Optional: Hardware in operation/future hardware planned (ie, DLINK-900AP, 8db external antenna Any special information required to connect (WEP keys, IP configuration) I plan on building a web page where this information can be entered and dumped into a database, but to get things moving /now/ I'd like to start with this. As soon as I've got a bare minimum list of sites I'll generate a map. My hope is that we could integrate this part of the system into the bootable CD system, along with whatever package we decided to setup for the people wanting to compile/install/maintain their own system. I'd like to get a unified system up ASAP with a generic AUP, firewall rules (we _really_ don't want Joe Slimeball abusing our access points), and centralized authentication with backup servers. More to come. -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From tanner at real-time.com Wed Jun 5 14:28:48 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots In-Reply-To: <20020605134203.C10820@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 01:42:03PM -0500 References: <20020605134203.C10820@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020605141908.Z1675@real-time.com> Should make a web page for this submission of info. Quoting Matthew S. Hallacy (poptix@techmonkeys.org): > Anyone with a hotspot that's open to the public please send me the > following: > > Street Address or GPS Coordinates > SSID > > > Optional: > Hardware in operation/future hardware planned > (ie, DLINK-900AP, 8db external antenna > > Any special information required to connect (WEP keys, IP configuration) > > > I plan on building a web page where this information can be entered and > dumped into a database, but to get things moving /now/ I'd like to start > with this. As soon as I've got a bare minimum list of sites I'll generate > a map. > > My hope is that we could integrate this part of the system into the > bootable CD system, along with whatever package we decided to setup for > the people wanting to compile/install/maintain their own system. > > I'd like to get a unified system up ASAP with a generic AUP, firewall rules > (we _really_ don't want Joe Slimeball abusing our access points), and > centralized authentication with backup servers. > > More to come. > -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From drechsau at geeks.org Wed Jun 5 16:58:32 2002 From: drechsau at geeks.org (Mike Horwath) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: FWD: O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference Call for Participation In-Reply-To: <20020605143413.GX21257@ringworld.org> References: <20020605091605.F28408@botwerks.org> <20020605143413.GX21257@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020605203142.GA29219@Geeks.ORG> On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 09:34:13AM -0500, Scott Dier wrote: > * steve ulrich [020605 09:33]: > > here's some correspondence that i was asked to forward to the > > user group from o'reilly and associates. the mac heads amongst us > > Start a mac list then. while I agree that it might not have been appropiate for this list, your rudeness is not liked either. -- Mike Horwath IRC: Drechsau drechsau@Geeks.ORG Home: 763-540-6815 1901 Sumter Ave N, Golden Valley, MN 55427 Opinions stated in this message, or any message posted by myself through my Geeks.ORG address, are mine and mine alone, period. From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Jun 5 17:05:04 2002 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots In-Reply-To: <20020605141908.Z1675@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > Should make a web page for this submission of info. Are you volunteering? (Sorry...easy shot.) Jima From sulrich at botwerks.org Wed Jun 5 17:21:01 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: FWD: O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference Call for Participation In-Reply-To: <20020605143413.GX21257@ringworld.org> References: <20020605091605.F28408@botwerks.org> <20020605143413.GX21257@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020605161031.B1337@botwerks.org> scott- i'm not claiming that this is laser focused in relevance to our list. however, since our user group is getting some decent discounts from o'reilly and associates for books, conferences and such it's a pretty small thing for them to ask that we occaisionally hit the user group with postings of this nature. you can choose to ignore it. when last we saw our hero (Wednesday, Jun 05, 2002), Scott Dier was madly tapping out: > * steve ulrich [020605 09:33]: > > here's some correspondence that i was asked to forward to the > > user group from o'reilly and associates. the mac heads amongst us > > Start a mac list then. > -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From jay-lists at 3pound.com Wed Jun 5 20:10:22 2002 From: jay-lists at 3pound.com (Jay) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots In-Reply-To: References: <20020605141908.Z1675@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020605183739.752c8b3b.jay-lists@3pound.com> On Wed, 5 Jun 2002 14:42:20 -0500 (CDT) Jima wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Bob Tanner wrote: > > Should make a web page for this submission of info. > > Are you volunteering? > (Sorry...easy shot.) > > Jima I second that motion, Thanks Bob! Seriously though, if someone has the bandwidth/boxen, I might be inclined to donate some Perl/mod_perl skills. -Jay From spencer at autonomous.tv Thu Jun 6 02:35:43 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Re: FWD: O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference Call for Participation In-Reply-To: <20020605143413.GX21257@ringworld.org> References: <20020605091605.F28408@botwerks.org> <20020605143413.GX21257@ringworld.org> Message-ID: <20020606073558.GA27213@autonomous.tv> On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 09:34:13AM -0500, Scott Dier wrote: >* steve ulrich [020605 09:33]: >> here's some correspondence that i was asked to forward to the >> user group from o'reilly and associates. the mac heads amongst us > >Start a mac list then. hrm. Yeah, this is not really the place for such information IMO. > >-- >Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/ > >01:00 LILO IS REALLY DIANORA >01:00 DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE >_______________________________________________ > -- --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020606/245a558c/attachment.pgp From spencer at autonomous.tv Thu Jun 6 03:14:39 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots In-Reply-To: <20020605134203.C10820@techmonkeys.org> References: <20020605134203.C10820@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020606074106.GB27213@autonomous.tv> On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 01:42:03PM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: >Anyone with a hotspot that's open to the public please send me the >following: > >Street Address or GPS Coordinates >SSID I feel confident you have the data currently to add me to the list, please do so. > > >Optional: >Hardware in operation/future hardware planned > (ie, DLINK-900AP, 8db external antenna I do chage hardware quite frequently, but I usually keep the essid at AAA Currently it is an SMC2652 AP with the stock antenna. (reception is better on the front porch :-)) > >Any special information required to connect (WEP keys, IP configuration) I will be putting up a web interface to the AP in the near future, but I will probably put the auth info on the same page. > > >I plan on building a web page where this information can be entered and >dumped into a database, but to get things moving /now/ I'd like to start >with this. As soon as I've got a bare minimum list of sites I'll generate >a map. Are you sure you can make a map of this stuff? > >My hope is that we could integrate this part of the system into the >bootable CD system, along with whatever package we decided to setup for >the people wanting to compile/install/maintain their own system. > >I'd like to get a unified system up ASAP with a generic AUP, firewall rules >(we _really_ don't want Joe Slimeball abusing our access points), and >centralized authentication with backup servers. > >More to come. More to come. > >-- >Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified >http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 -- --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020606/69c9b4a5/attachment.pgp From sulrich at botwerks.org Thu Jun 6 12:47:47 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] tcwug meeting notes - 06/04/2002 Message-ID: <20020606093800.A1721@botwerks.org> some notes from the meeting this last tuesday - some of this was covered very briefly with me promising to push some of my research elements into the mailing list. as such this email is not to scale. administravia / group discounts ------------------------------- we have been signed up for the oreilly and associates user group membership. this means that we get the following perks. - group members are entitled to a 20% discount on O'Reilly products purchased directly from ora. Information for placing an order is provided on the discount flyers that will be shipped to us, upon acceptance to the program. (sometimes this is cheaper than amazon / sometimes it isn't) - members are also entitled to a 20% discount on o'reilly conferences and tutorials. other special discount offers may also be forwarded to our group from time to time. - they regularly donate books and other promotional items for raffles or auctions to help user groups raise money, or for meeting door prizes. on a quarterly basis, they'll send their latest catalog. some of their authors are willing to speak at user group meetings they'll do what they can to help us arrange speakers. - we can get a single review copy of a book for our group, provided we're willing to follow up with a review of the book and give them either a copy of the review if it happens in printed publication or a url for a web based version of it. interested parties can drop me a line for details. - asim was curious as to whether or not this discount applied to the safari books online. i will be following up on this. - we're supposed to be getting a welcome package with the discount flyers and more information within the next couple of weeks. i'll have the contents of this care package for the next meeting. what ORA would like from us (note: these are not required but do go some ways to helping us sponsor events and generate relationships with other people) - post an o'reilly user group program banner to the web site, which can be found at: http://ug.oreilly.com/banners/. they would like the banner to link back to www.oreilly.com. - encourage members to review ora books and post the reviews on the web site or newsletter--making sure to notify ora when the reviews are available. if we don't have a newsletter, provide information to the group about o'reilly products and ug program benefits to the group email list (editorial aside - some of these items may not have direct applicability to the user group but may be of tangential interest.) additional vendors i have contacted a handful of antenna and wireless equipment vendors to see about getting discounts on gear and group purchase options. more on this as i coalesce the information. many of these companies don't have formal user group programs like ORA hence they're making some of this up as they go. administravia / web collaboration software ------------------------------------------ - i conducted a fair amount of research on collaborative web tools and came to the conclusion that these for the most part stunk. kent ritchie pointed out that there doesn't seem to be a burning need for additional content on the web site and this seems to be a topic that we can handle as it comes up later. -- further discussion on this has been tabled for the time being. misc group discussion --------------------- we now move to a rather rambling discussion regarding what the desires of the group as a whole were. andy warner had summarized his SIG tabulation in email prior to the meeting and while the interested parties seem fairly well split regarding interest there is a lot of overlap between the hotspot folks and the infrastructure folks. while there wasn't as much structure to the discussion as there was at our first meeting there were a lot of topics covered and a very engaging discussion was had. i'll attempt to hit the topics in a rough progression of order as well as highlight what i saw to be the take aways. if i missed something of interest please, please add to the discussion. - hot spots - ------------- there was a lot of interest in this topic and folks seem to have a wide range of opinions regarding what would and would not be successful. much of the discussion centered around the challenges with the geographic coverage of points of interest. to that end there are a few elements that bear noting. - while we feel that we may not have much in common areaswe don't know for certain where people in the group are localized. matthew hallacy has volunteered to log the access points and locations that people have setup and are planning on setting up. we will review these locations to see if there are locations of interest/overlap and see what we can focus our immediate energies on. initial research seems to indicate that we have some overlap. - there is a need for a common authentication arrangement that allows us to share our nodes with other members in the city as well as the need to come up with cookbook configurations for members who may not necessarily be comfortable with some of the technology elements. *project - wireless config distro* - this need for a cookbook configuration and the support of it brought up the topic of rolling our own sputnik-like distro with support provided by the local user group. this seems like a project that many folks were interested in and will likely be a topic for further development. - also within the scope of this discussion was the notion of wiring the state fair from a publicity perspective and providing access from the fairgrounds. this bears further research. - other topics of conversation over the course of this discussion included the various flavors of firewalls that are available on the different platforms and the current state of the NoCatAuth system. - overlay network - ------------------- there is just as much interest in an overlay network which can be used to move bits around the twin cities independently of wired infrastructure which is purchased from the teleco. this brings with it a host of new challenges many of which were discussed. there are some significant benefits in this too. one of the primary challenges facing this sort of endeavor is the need to donate assets to the group and the need to provide some administrative structure. bob tanner has done research regarding the creation of a non-profit for the tclug group and is willing to share the information for the tcwug group as well. this may make more sense for the tcwug group vs. the tclug group since there is the creation of infrastructure elements as well. additional topics ----------------- peter saly brought up a very good point regarding his desire to put a node together with the goal of making it available to himself and his neighbors. however, he had some concerns regarding the security implications of doing so and what his risks were. we need to follow up with the cookbook approach to de-skill the process of setting up a wireless access point for public use and help people mitigate the risks associated with doing it. this is good from a PR perspective as well as just making folks lives easier. conclusion ---------- i'm sure that i've missed topics here. if folks would like to fill in any gaps i would appreciate it. hopefully this is useful to the folks who weren't able to make the meeting. -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From chrome at real-time.com Thu Jun 6 14:00:05 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:02 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots In-Reply-To: <20020605183739.752c8b3b.jay-lists@3pound.com>; from jay-lists@3pound.com on Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 06:37:39PM -0500 References: <20020605141908.Z1675@real-time.com> <20020605183739.752c8b3b.jay-lists@3pound.com> Message-ID: <20020606134505.E12504@real-time.com> > Seriously though, if someone has the bandwidth/boxen, I might be > inclined to donate some Perl/mod_perl skills. > > -Jay I'm willing to put a box on a rack here at work, and provide physical maintenance of it. (not sure I want to take on the additional sysadmin load tho; so a volunteer to help admin/security-update it will go a long way toward getting it done.) If someone buys me a beer occasionally, I may even be persuaded to do backups of it. ;) if I have to admin it myself, it'll get Debian Stable. if someone wants a feature that isn't in that distro, they get to do the legwork to make it work. If you want another OS/distro; volunteer to admin it. :) Note that I'm not volunteering to do any website admin work. I can't keep my own page even remotely up to date, and find the whole buisness profoundly boring. I will attempt to do security audits of any web content tho; because Bob will have my hide if I don't. ;) Carl. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From natecars at real-time.com Thu Jun 6 14:30:13 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots In-Reply-To: <20020606134505.E12504@real-time.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > I'm willing to put a box on a rack here at work, and provide physical > maintenance of it. (not sure I want to take on the additional sysadmin > load tho; so a volunteer to help admin/security-update it will go a > long way toward getting it done.) If someone buys me a beer > occasionally, I may even be persuaded to do backups of it. ;) I can do nightly rsync's of the box down to my file server at home.. that way, if something blows up, we've got an offsite copy of it. Won't help for 'oops i deleted the wrong file two days ago', though. -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From blutgens at sistina.com Thu Jun 6 15:05:08 2002 From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots In-Reply-To: <20020606134505.E12504@real-time.com> References: <20020605141908.Z1675@real-time.com> <20020605183739.752c8b3b.jay-lists@3pound.com> <20020606134505.E12504@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020606195245.GD19517@rtfm.sistina.com> On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 01:45:05PM -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > >I'm willing to put a box on a rack here at work, and provide physical >maintenance of it. (not sure I want to take on the additional sysadmin load >tho; so a volunteer to help admin/security-update it will go a long way >toward getting it done.) If someone buys me a beer occasionally, I may even >be persuaded to do backups of it. ;) I'll help admin the box if I can do it remotely. > >if I have to admin it myself, it'll get Debian Stable. if someone wants a >feature that isn't in that distro, they get to do the legwork to make it >work. If you want another OS/distro; volunteer to admin it. :) > >Note that I'm not volunteering to do any website admin work. I can't keep my >own page even remotely up to date, and find the whole buisness profoundly >boring. I will attempt to do security audits of any web content tho; because >Bob will have my hide if I don't. ;) > >Carl. >-- >Network Engineer >Real-Time Enterprises >www.real-time.com >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.tcwug.org >tcwug-list@tcwug.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > -- Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/ System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/ Sistina Software Inc. | "I got a wife and kids too but you don't see me out here stealing Imperial Droids now do ya?" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020606/4a9b5f5b/attachment.pgp From chrome at real-time.com Thu Jun 6 15:05:17 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: TCWUG co-lo server (was: Re: [TCWUG] Hotspots) In-Reply-To: ; from natecars@real-time.com on Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 02:18:32PM -0500 References: <20020606134505.E12504@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020606145146.B29495@real-time.com> > I can do nightly rsync's of the box down to my file server at home.. that > way, if something blows up, we've got an offsite copy of it. Won't help > for 'oops i deleted the wrong file two days ago', though. sounds good. thanks nate. :) btw, does anyone have a 19" rack shelf they'll sell me at reasonable cost? I need it for this TCWUG server. I'd like to buy it outright just so there's no doubts about who owns it (a computer that I own, in a rack that I own, sitting on a small part that I don't own, makes things too complicated when it comes to relocating stuff); but I promise to use it in the service of the LUG. :) Carl. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From chrome at real-time.com Thu Jun 6 15:35:06 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: TCWUG co-lo server (was: Re: [TCWUG] Hotspots) In-Reply-To: <20020606145146.B29495@real-time.com>; from chrome@real-time.com on Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 02:51:46PM -0500 References: <20020606134505.E12504@real-time.com> <20020606145146.B29495@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020606151938.E29495@real-time.com> > btw, does anyone have a 19" rack shelf they'll sell me at reasonable cost? I > need it for this TCWUG server. I'd like to buy it outright just so there's > no doubts about who owns it (a computer that I own, in a rack that I own, > sitting on a small part that I don't own, makes things too complicated when > it comes to relocating stuff); but I promise to use it in the service of the > LUG. :) oops. s/LUG/WUG/ Carl. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From andyw at pobox.com Thu Jun 6 16:45:03 2002 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots In-Reply-To: <20020605134203.C10820@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 01:42:03PM -0500 References: <20020605134203.C10820@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020606164505.A21324@florence.linkmargin.com> Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Anyone with a hotspot that's open to the public please send me the > following: > > Street Address or GPS Coordinates > SSID N 44.922967 W 93.33327 SSID: Open Externally mounted WAP11, chimney mounted 8dBi omni, 8' of 1/2" Heliax. I'm not completely sure I understand why we're re-inventing the mapping/cataloging wheel here. What were the issues with simply using an existing engine/database like the personal telco one ? -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 From jima at beer.tclug.org Thu Jun 6 17:20:10 2002 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots In-Reply-To: <20020606164505.A21324@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Andy Warner wrote: > Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > Anyone with a hotspot that's open to the public please send me the > > following: > > > > Street Address or GPS Coordinates > > SSID > > N 44.922967 W 93.33327 > SSID: Open > Externally mounted WAP11, chimney mounted 8dBi omni, 8' of 1/2" Heliax. > > I'm not completely sure I understand why we're re-inventing the > mapping/cataloging wheel here. What were the issues with simply > using an existing engine/database like the personal telco one ? Actually I believe Matt is planning to do drive-by's wherever possible, and generate propogation maps. This gives a more realistic idea of how close we are to connecting between APs. We're not inventing any wheels here; we're simply using (and improving?) the ones other people invented -- kismet & gpsdrive, et al -- which paint a clearer picture. Jima From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Jun 6 17:24:11 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots In-Reply-To: <20020606164505.A21324@florence.linkmargin.com>; from andyw@pobox.com on Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 04:45:05PM -0500 References: <20020605134203.C10820@techmonkeys.org> <20020606164505.A21324@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <20020606171732.L10820@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 04:45:05PM -0500, Andy Warner wrote: > > N 44.922967 W 93.33327 > SSID: Open > Externally mounted WAP11, chimney mounted 8dBi omni, 8' of 1/2" Heliax. > > I'm not completely sure I understand why we're re-inventing the > mapping/cataloging wheel here. What were the issues with simply > using an existing engine/database like the personal telco one ? At the moment I'm gathering data points, so far we've found out that Steve Ulrich lives a few blocks from someone from the meeting, and that his in-laws live practically next door to another person at the meeting. Having initial datapoints on a map will spur further activity in the group IMO =) The mapping server at personaltelco looks like a good starting point, I think I'll go set it up now. > -- > andyw@pobox.com > > Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From goober at goobe.net Thu Jun 6 19:40:34 2002 From: goober at goobe.net (Alex Hartman) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots References: <20020605134203.C10820@techmonkeys.org> <20020606164505.A21324@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <000701c20da4$f3f284b0$2b5c7618@jennifer> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Warner" To: Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Hotspots > Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > Anyone with a hotspot that's open to the public please send me the > > following: > > > > Street Address or GPS Coordinates > > SSID > > N 44.922967 W 93.33327 > SSID: Open > Externally mounted WAP11, chimney mounted 8dBi omni, 8' of 1/2" Heliax. > > I'm not completely sure I understand why we're re-inventing the > mapping/cataloging wheel here. What were the issues with simply > using an existing engine/database like the personal telco one ? > -- > andyw@pobox.com > > Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > Andy, Did you ever take pictures of that thing getting mounted? I'm very interested in how it went. Also, can you draw up some schematics for me, on your little switched power regulator? I'd like to construct similar. (8' of heliax?? Thought it was mast mounted and didn't need more than 12" of it?) -- Alex Hartman - goober@goobe.net PGP Key fingerprint = 26 41 19 56 19 81 E2 BC EE C8 1D F4 DB B8 ED B8 "All in all is all we all are..." -Kurt Cobain RIP 1967-1994 From sulrich at botwerks.org Thu Jun 6 19:49:23 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots In-Reply-To: References: <20020606164505.A21324@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <20020606173016.C2716@botwerks.org> this is definitely a nice thing for us to be doing that way we have some idea of what our overlap looks like. it sounds like (from some unicast discussions with matt) we have a couple places where we have some overlap. i think that andy's point is well taken however regarding the cataloging of the nodes within a common database. there are some good tools for the cataloging of this stuff. when last we saw our hero (Thursday, Jun 06, 2002), Jima was madly tapping out: > On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Andy Warner wrote: > > Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > > Anyone with a hotspot that's open to the public please send me > > > the following: > > > > > > Street Address or GPS Coordinates SSID > > > > N 44.922967 W 93.33327 SSID: Open Externally mounted WAP11, > > chimney mounted 8dBi omni, 8' of 1/2" Heliax. > > > > I'm not completely sure I understand why we're re-inventing the > > mapping/cataloging wheel here. What were the issues with simply > > using an existing engine/database like the personal telco one ? > > Actually I believe Matt is planning to do drive-by's wherever > possible, and generate propogation maps. This gives a more > realistic idea of how close we are to connecting between APs. > We're not inventing any wheels here; we're simply using (and > improving?) the ones other people invented -- kismet & gpsdrive, et > al -- which paint a clearer picture. > > -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From andyw at pobox.com Thu Jun 6 19:49:57 2002 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots In-Reply-To: ; from jima@beer.tclug.org on Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 05:10:39PM -0500 References: <20020606164505.A21324@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <20020606173336.A21462@florence.linkmargin.com> Jima wrote: > On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, Andy Warner wrote: > > Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > > Anyone with a hotspot that's open to the public please send me the > > > following: > > > > > > Street Address or GPS Coordinates > > > SSID > > > > N 44.922967 W 93.33327 > > SSID: Open > > Externally mounted WAP11, chimney mounted 8dBi omni, 8' of 1/2" Heliax. > > > > I'm not completely sure I understand why we're re-inventing the > > mapping/cataloging wheel here. What were the issues with simply > > using an existing engine/database like the personal telco one ? > > Actually I believe Matt is planning to do drive-by's wherever possible, > and generate propogation maps. This gives a more realistic idea of how > close we are to connecting between APs. Speak up Matt. If that's what you're planning, I can supply lat/long/sig/noise plots for this AP, and you can save the gas. > We're not inventing any wheels here; we're simply using (and improving?) > the ones other people invented -- kismet & gpsdrive, et al -- which paint > a clearer picture. I'll take issue that kismet graphs really show meaningful coverage (hearing one packet does not mean that you can associate, or move data), but if you guys have the time, go ahead. -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 From drechsau at geeks.org Thu Jun 6 20:18:02 2002 From: drechsau at geeks.org (Mike Horwath) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: TCWUG co-lo server (was: Re: [TCWUG] Hotspots) In-Reply-To: <20020606145146.B29495@real-time.com> References: <20020606134505.E12504@real-time.com> <20020606145146.B29495@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020606234553.GB45987@Geeks.ORG> On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 02:51:46PM -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > > I can do nightly rsync's of the box down to my file server at home.. that > > way, if something blows up, we've got an offsite copy of it. Won't help > > for 'oops i deleted the wrong file two days ago', though. > > sounds good. thanks nate. :) > > btw, does anyone have a 19" rack shelf they'll sell me at reasonable cost? I > need it for this TCWUG server. I'd like to buy it outright just so there's > no doubts about who owns it (a computer that I own, in a rack that I own, > sitting on a small part that I don't own, makes things too complicated when > it comes to relocating stuff); but I promise to use it in the service of the > LUG. :) WUG or LUG? -- Mike Horwath IRC: Drechsau drechsau@Geeks.ORG Home: 763-540-6815 1901 Sumter Ave N, Golden Valley, MN 55427 Opinions stated in this message, or any message posted by myself through my Geeks.ORG address, are mine and mine alone, period. From poptix at techmonkeys.org Thu Jun 6 20:27:33 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots In-Reply-To: <20020606173336.A21462@florence.linkmargin.com>; from andyw@pobox.com on Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 05:33:36PM -0500 References: <20020606164505.A21324@florence.linkmargin.com> <20020606173336.A21462@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <20020606201713.M10820@techmonkeys.org> On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 05:33:36PM -0500, Andy Warner wrote: > Speak up Matt. If that's what you're planning, I can supply lat/long/sig/noise > plots for this AP, and you can save the gas. > It depends on how much data, and what format for if it'll be usable. > > We're not inventing any wheels here; we're simply using (and improving?) > > the ones other people invented -- kismet & gpsdrive, et al -- which paint > > a clearer picture. > > I'll take issue that kismet graphs really show meaningful > coverage (hearing one packet does not mean that you can > associate, or move data), but if you guys have the time, > go ahead. The range graphs are obviously simply the range in which the noise propogates, but the radiation graphs are much more useful and correct.. http://www.poptix.net/gallery/radiation Although, you do need to have a sufficient data to make a good map, and when you're zoomed out too far it's inaccurate ie: http://www.poptix.net/gallery/boundary/all_radiation =) > -- > andyw@pobox.com > > Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From wirelessguyinstpaul at attbi.com Fri Jun 7 00:49:15 2002 From: wirelessguyinstpaul at attbi.com (P. Sheehy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots References: Message-ID: <3D00CFA7.85BE1A17@attbi.com> I have a hotspot up and running, albeit not one that has a particularly large range as yet. Just this morning I got an SMC2682W up and running in "AP" mode (it is designed primarily to be a bridge and I acquired it with the thought that some day it might be). I'm using only the screw-in whip antenna that comes with it. The unit is located on a second floor all-season porch on the back of my home. Range is just a couple of houses (although I haven't finished testing) to a laptop running a Compaq WL100 wireless card (thanks to the post alerting to availability on eBay). Theoretically it is possible to place an antenna on my roof (I have a TV antenna mounted on my chimney now). I am thinking it is more likely I will get some kind of antenna mounted on an eave or on the window of the porch. Ideas or offers of help will be welcomed. P. Sheehy From wirelessguyinstpaul at attbi.com Fri Jun 7 00:52:53 2002 From: wirelessguyinstpaul at attbi.com (P. Sheehy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Possible hotspots or ... Message-ID: <3D00D41C.687079E0@attbi.com> Some POSSIBLE locations for hotspots (and maybe connection points) in the Midway area of St. Paul ================= I serve on the board of a District Council in Saint Paul that owns it's own building at 1564 Lafond Ave (sitting at sidewalk at the corner of Lafond and Snelling in St. Paul (one block east of my home). The building is a former "playground building" and still sits on the site of a city park. Thus it has a commanding presence with line of sight up and down Snelling Avenue. Just north at the corner of Snelling and Minnehaha (opposite side of street) is Ginkgo Coffeehouse (that, happily, just went smoke free). The address is 721 Snelling Ave. It is located on the first floor of a two-story building (the coffeehouse is located conveniently one block from Hamline University). Both of these buildings have flat top roofs. I know the owner of the coffeehouse. P. Sheehy From sulrich at botwerks.org Fri Jun 7 08:54:19 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Possible hotspots or ... In-Reply-To: <3D00D41C.687079E0@attbi.com> References: <3D00D41C.687079E0@attbi.com> Message-ID: <20020607082946.A3405@botwerks.org> that's a pretty decent location. i know that area can be served by Q dsl pretty easily as well. since there's a CO within spitting distance of the location. when last we saw our hero (Friday, Jun 07, 2002), P. Sheehy was madly tapping out: > Some POSSIBLE locations for hotspots (and maybe connection points) in > the Midway area of St. Paul > ================= > > I serve on the board of a District Council in Saint Paul that owns it's > own building at 1564 Lafond Ave (sitting at sidewalk at the corner of > Lafond and Snelling in St. Paul (one block east of my home). The > building is a former "playground building" and still sits on the site of > a city park. Thus it has a commanding presence with line of sight up and > down Snelling Avenue. Just north at the corner of Snelling and Minnehaha > (opposite side of street) is Ginkgo Coffeehouse (that, happily, just > went smoke free). The address is 721 Snelling Ave. It is located on the > first floor of a two-story building (the coffeehouse is located > conveniently one block from Hamline University). Both of these > buildings have flat top roofs. I know the owner of the coffeehouse. > > { snipped - misc .signatures } -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From sulrich at botwerks.org Fri Jun 7 12:16:59 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:03 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] fwd:[IEEE mtg.notes "Next-Gen Wireless: Who Needs Base Stations?"] In-Reply-To: <20020607083306.C534@cisco.com> References: <20020607083306.C534@cisco.com> Message-ID: <20020607163754.GA45064@botwerks.org> all- here are some notes from a friend who attended the IEEE meeting. i haven't had a chance to pick mark's brain on what the tone of the presentation was but there's some interesting stuff in there. > Attended IEEE Communication Society meeting in Denver. Presentation > was "Next Generation Wireless: Who Needs Base Stations?" Presented > by Dr. Tim Brown, University of Colorado at Boulder. > > The basic premise of his presentation was that cellular networks are > not well suited for high bandwidth services, and that ad-hoc 802.11 > WiFi networks were delaying the acceptance of 3G wireless. > > Some of the highlights: > > Economic challenge: > +What price for high quality, on demand, anywhere content...assume 1 > cent/kbps per minute > +Services cost: MPEG video at 1.2mbps=$12/min, or MP3 at > 128kpbs=$1.28/min > +This doesn't seem very affordable > > What can be done? > +Price=BW x bit-rate-price > +Reduce BW demand, Increase supply, or use an Alternate model > > The 3G challenge: > +Spectrum is expensive > +Base stations expensive > +Performance maybe only 2x of 2G cellular > +Handsets expensive > +Killer app is voice, 2G already does that well. > +So business proposition is uncertain > > The WiFi comparison > +Spectrum > +Base stations $200 > +Performance, proven multi megabit rates > +Handsets, many already own laptops w/wireless LAN cards > +2G is complimentary service > +Technology is already deployed > > Ad Hoc networks or community networks > +Cooperative wireless that emerges when wireless nodes are brought together > +Communication dynamic, has to adjust to people moving away > +Peer to peer, no one is in charge > +Capacity & coverage increase w/more users [i.e. more access points] > +Note, won't get coverage everywhere > +Security also an issue. > Where are these networks? > +Free nets in 50+ cities > example, Seattle; www.seattlewireless.net [showed map of several > hundred networks in downtown Seattle] > +Available in many airports, for like $8 day > +Neighborhood, Joltage franchise, joltage does billing; 100k nodes by 2005? > +Capacity is proportional to the number of base stations > FCC likes model, because they don't have to manage each little > piece of spectrum, no concern about companies not paying for > spectrum > > Technical issues [resource management, QOS, battery] > +Power issue, a 1 watt wireless lan card is a big percentage of > portable device > +Power & distance, power goes up with distance > +Routing in Ad Hoc networks > topo discovery > route choice > route maintenance > > Discussed Dynamic Source Routing, current status: > +power aware DSR design > +implemented in ns-simulator [open source simulator] > +implementing in laptop test bed using "click" > +Also showed simulation and experimental routing results. > > Conclusion: > +Wide area cellular networks are not well suited for high bandwidth services > +Wireless LAN networks complement wide area networks > +Can in-vision tri-mode handsets that can hand-off > +Ad hoc networks can expand coverage and capabilities of WLAN networks > +Routing layer has a role in conserving battery energy -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From andyw at pobox.com Fri Jun 7 15:16:01 2002 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hotspots In-Reply-To: <000701c20da4$f3f284b0$2b5c7618@jennifer>; from goober@goobe.net on Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 04:56:03PM -0500 References: <20020605134203.C10820@techmonkeys.org> <20020606164505.A21324@florence.linkmargin.com> <000701c20da4$f3f284b0$2b5c7618@jennifer> Message-ID: <20020607150507.A24916@florence.linkmargin.com> Alex Hartman wrote: > [...] > Andy, Did you ever take pictures of that thing getting mounted? I'm very > interested in how it went. Also, can you draw up some schematics for me, on > your little switched power regulator? I'd like to construct similar. I did take pictures, lots of them. I'm gradually trimming them down & making thumbnails as time permits. The regulator was a TI (nee PowerTrends) unit, they give free samples - all I did was add a couple of caps and a bridge rectifier. I'll be sure to post a schematic when I put the page together. > (8' of heliax?? Thought it was mast mounted and didn't need more than 12" of > it?) I could have used less, but I wanted to mount the connector at the bottom of the box, and have a drip loop. Quoted loss is 0.3dB, the connectors probably lose me more. -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sat Jun 8 21:51:00 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] http://maps.tcwug.org Message-ID: <20020608214859.U10820@techmonkeys.org> Feel free to browse on over and check it out, it's rather insecure IMO, and I had to lock the user it runs as down pretty tightly. Be aware, even though it allows anyone to edit nodes/etc, be aware that it does log your address in the logfiles and the database =) I'll be adding some kind of login/password system to this eventually, after I clean it up (the guys at personaltelco will agree that it's poorly designed for any system other than the one it was written on =P) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From spencer at autonomous.tv Sun Jun 9 13:11:57 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] website Message-ID: <20020609172234.GA9751@autonomous.tv> The web-site is looking great! I like the logo concept. Can we get a link to the map.tcwug.org area on the front page? People are starting add their AP's to the page! We are on our way to great things....... -- --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020609/9df90c7d/attachment.pgp From spencer at autonomous.tv Sun Jun 9 13:41:02 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] website In-Reply-To: <20020609172234.GA9751@autonomous.tv> References: <20020609172234.GA9751@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20020609182820.GA9956@autonomous.tv> And big props to Matt for the kick ass work on maps.tcwug.org On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 12:22:34PM -0500, SpencerUnderground wrote: >The web-site is looking great! I like the logo concept. Can we get a >link to the map.tcwug.org area on the front page? > >People are starting add their AP's to the page! We are on our way to >great things....... > >-- > --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- >http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv >Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 > -- --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020609/41afff24/attachment.pgp From andyw at pobox.com Sun Jun 9 15:05:02 2002 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] http://maps.tcwug.org In-Reply-To: <20020608214859.U10820@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 09:48:59PM -0500 References: <20020608214859.U10820@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020609145316.A6648@florence.linkmargin.com> Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Feel free to browse on over and check it out, it's rather insecure IMO, > and I had to lock the user it runs as down pretty tightly. Nicely done. Thanks for doing this. -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 From tanner at real-time.com Mon Jun 10 10:29:26 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Garage Tinkerers Claim Wireless Last-Mile Solution Message-ID: <20020610101634.I10867@real-time.com> From poptix at techmonkeys.org Mon Jun 10 11:12:09 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Garage Tinkerers Claim Wireless Last-Mile Solution In-Reply-To: <20020610101634.I10867@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 10:16:34AM -0500 References: <20020610101634.I10867@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020610104830.B10820@techmonkeys.org> On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 10:16:34AM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > >From slashdot: > > "The NYTimes is reporting that two guys in their garage have designed a low-cost > wireless broadband solution that can transmit up to 20 miles. (A previous story > described a 7km achievement in Australia.) Wow, 7km! I didn't know radio waves could go THAT far! > Their company is called Etherlinx and > they use the Wi-Fi 802.11b standard in a repeater antenna that people can attach > to the outside of their homes. The technology, which apparently costs under > $100, has been operating in a small for-pay trial in Oakland, CA for a year. Is > this a solution to the 'last-mile' problem, hope for rural areas, and the death > of cable/DSL? Read and be the judge." > Sounds like they're playing with prism2 cards and something similar to the hostAP driver.. they claim to have covered some towns with 2mbit data rates, of course, you can already do all this with frequency hopping gear that deals better with interference, at 3mbit. > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From andyw at pobox.com Mon Jun 10 12:24:41 2002 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Garage Tinkerers Claim Wireless Last-Mile Solution In-Reply-To: <20020610104830.B10820@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 10:48:30AM -0500 References: <20020610101634.I10867@real-time.com> <20020610104830.B10820@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020610122146.A9318@florence.linkmargin.com> Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > [...] > Sounds like they're playing with prism2 cards and something similar to > the hostAP driver.. they claim to have covered some towns with 2mbit > data rates, of course, you can already do all this with frequency hopping > gear that deals better with interference, at 3mbit. Their two big banner items appear to be: o sub $100 cpe o no truck roll I'm intrigued how they achieve either at any interesting distance from the POP. Both represent the holy-grail for WISPs (with tree canopy penetration being a third.) Apart from that it seems like another 802.11b wisp, potentially with home-brew panel-antenna-cpe equipment. Not really worthy of the NY Times, but perhaps you've got to admire their chutzpah. Looks like XM/Sirius have called off the dogs (or at least retired to lick their wounds) for their baseless plea to the FCC for special treatment for their poorly designed network: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?%0Atmpl=story&ncid=70&e=1&cid=70&u=/cn/20020607/tc_cn/933965 -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 From mail at robwentworth.com Mon Jun 10 13:29:23 2002 From: mail at robwentworth.com (Rob Wentworth) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Garage Tinkerers Claim Wireless Last-Mile Solution References: <20020610101634.I10867@real-time.com> Message-ID: <053301c21095$02f55800$0600000a@Domain> Read the rest of the article here (may need a free NYTimes account): http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/10/technology/10WIRE.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 10:16 AM Subject: [TCWUG] Garage Tinkerers Claim Wireless Last-Mile Solution > From slashdot: > > "The NYTimes is reporting that two guys in their garage have designed a low-cost > wireless broadband solution that can transmit up to 20 miles. (A previous story > described a 7km achievement in Australia.) Their company is called Etherlinx and > they use the Wi-Fi 802.11b standard in a repeater antenna that people can attach > to the outside of their homes. The technology, which apparently costs under > $100, has been operating in a small for-pay trial in Oakland, CA for a year. Is > this a solution to the 'last-mile' problem, hope for rural areas, and the death > of cable/DSL? Read and be the judge." > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > From jrhelgeson at hotmail.com Mon Jun 10 13:44:00 2002 From: jrhelgeson at hotmail.com (jrhelgeson@hotmail.com) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] NYTimes.com Article: 2 Tinkerers Say They've Found a Cheap Way to Broadband Message-ID: <20020610183036.09E6D58A4E@email5.lga2.nytimes.com> This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by jrhelgeson@hotmail.com. /-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\ Enjoy new investment freedom! Get the tools you need to successfully manage your portfolio from Harrisdirect. Start with award-winning research. Then add access to round-the-clock customer service from Series-7 trained representatives. Open an account today and receive a $100 credit! http://www.nytimes.com/ads/Harrisdirect.html \----------------------------------------------------------/ 2 Tinkerers Say They've Found a Cheap Way to Broadband June 10, 2002 By JOHN MARKOFF CUPERTINO, Calif., June 7 - Anyone looking for the next big thing in Silicon Valley should stop here at Layne Holt's garage. Mr. Holt and his business partner, John Furrier, both software engineers, have started a company with a shoestring budget and an ambitious target: the cable and phone companies that currently hold a near-monopoly on high-speed access for the "last mile" between the Internet and the home. At the core of their plan is the inexpensive wireless data standard known as Wi-Fi or 802.11b, which is already shaking up the communications industry, threatening to undermine the business plans of cellular phone companies by offering a much cheaper method for mobile access to the Internet. The pair's company, known as Etherlinx, has taken the 802.11b standard and used it to build a system that can transmit Internet data up to 20 miles at high speeds - enough to blanket entire urban regions and make cable or D.S.L. connections obsolete. Their secret weapon is a technology known as a "software-designed radio," which has permitted them to create an inexpensive repeater antenna that can be attached to the outside of a customer's home. The device, which the Etherlinx executives said they believe can be built in quantity for less than $150 each, would communicate with a central antenna and then convert the signals into the industry-standard Wi-Fi, or wireless fidelity, signal for reception inside the home. Because of the staggering costs of wiring the nation's homes for high-speed networking, only 7 percent, or 7.5 million homes, now have high-speed Internet access, according to a February report from the Federal Communications Commission. The two Etherlinx executives say they have a religious fervor to change that by making broadband available widely and cheaply. "We're bandwidth junkies, and I can't imagine a world in which people don't have broadband," Mr. Furrier said. "That's our mission." Without venture capital backing, in a garage just six blocks from the garage where Steven P. Jobs and Stephen Wozniak launched Apple Computer 26 years ago, Mr. Holt is making his clever and inexpensive radio repeater by modifying inexpensive Wi-Fi cards, the circuitry that sends and receives the signals. Although he has partially broken with the Wi-Fi standard, he argues he is doing just what the unlicensed radio spectrum was originally set aside to encourage - innovative wireless network designs. Mr. Holt, a 54-year-old software designer and engineer who began his career at the Lockheed Corporation in Sunnyvale, Calif., replaces the software that supports the Wi-Fi 802.11b standard with his own code, thereby dramatically extending the range of the cheap, mass-produced hardware. Each repeater contains two cards - one that Mr. Holt has enhanced and another that is able to speak the 802.11b standard to a home computer. Today, while most of the Wi-Fi industry is working on a more complex technology known as "mesh routing," which involves lashing together hundreds or even thousands of short-range transceivers, the Etherlinx developers believe they have found a crude, cost-effective approach that is capable of leapfrogging the last-mile problem. "A French engineer would say this isn't the most elegant solution," Mr. Furrier said, "but we didn't care about that. We took advantage of these cheap commodity chips and we just wanted to make it work." In doing so, they say they believe they not only will be able to skate around the cable and phone companies but dodge the growing industry fears of congestion in the unlicensed Wi-Fi radio band, which is also supporting competing uses such as Bluetooth, an alternative, short-range wireless standard, as well as some wireless telephones. "The Wi-Fi industry is heading for a train wreck," Mr. Furrier said. The Etherlinx technology has been operating in a small for-pay trial in Oakland, Calif., for a year. The company began trials here last month using an antenna atop a high-rise building in neighboring Campbell, Calif., where the company has its corporate offices. Etherlinx is already beginning to attract serious attention from both government officials who are interested in last-mile solutions and corporate executives who believe the lack of high-speed Internet connections is the biggest obstacle to growth in the computer industry. "We have a huge incentive to see the last mile open up," said Graham Wallace, chief executive of Cable and Wireless P.L.C., one of the world's largest Internet backbone companies. To attract industry attention, Etherlinx cobbled together a demonstration antenna on the back of a Jeep Cherokee and took it to an industry conference in Southern California last month. Parked in front of the conference hotel, the founders were able to show Intel's chief executive, Craig R. Barrett, that their technology was capable of offering Internet access to the entire hotel as well as to the homes on a ridge behind the conference center. "I don't think there is a method that has emerged yet as a winner," said Leslie Vadasz, a veteran Intel executive who heads the company's venture arm, "but we are talking to these guys. What they have done is a very smart way of reusing engineering that has been done for other purposes." Etherlinx began the for-pay trial in Oakland last year after the company failed to get venture capital in Silicon Valley. The company is now selling Internet service commercially to about a dozen customers. "The V.C.'s are licking their wounds and they don't believe us," said Mr. Furrier, a 36-year-old networking engineer. "That's why we have taken a go-to-market approach." So far, the company has been run on about $200,000 in private investment - far less than the tens of millions of dollars that have been poured into other Wi-Fi startups. Etherlinx is not the only company taking new approaches to sending wireless data over longer distances in the unlicensed portion of the radio spectrum. The communications and computer industry is now at work on a second-generation standard known as 802.16, which is intended to address longer-distance communications challenges. The latest efforts follow the collapse of an earlier attempt to establish a commercial wireless industry based on line-of-sight technology known as the Multipoint Microwave Distribution System, or M.M.D.S. Giant companies like A T & T, Sprint and WorldCom and startups like Winstar and Teligent all developed M.M.D.S. service, but they have either halted development on their systems or declared bankruptcy. Industry experts said the M.M.D.S. technology failed in part because it required the receiver to be within sight of the transmitter, but also because it required expensive installation and a huge upfront investment to license the spectrum from the government. "The cost of the license for the spectrum killed them," Mr. Holt said. Etherlinx is by no means alone in its approach. Several other companies are also beginning to explore alternatives not requiring line-of-sight that they believe will be more resistant to interference and will be easy for customers to install without expensive on-site help. Nokia has a research group in Silicon Valley that has been trying to develop such technologies, and Iospan Wireless Inc. of San Jose, Calif., and Navini Networks in Richardson, Tex., are selling products that are along the lines of the Etherlinx approach. However, Mr. Furrier said he hoped that speed would outweigh size or capital in determining the success of a business in the market. In addition to the company's Oakland trial, Etherlinx is planning to offer commercial service in Campbell, which is not currently served with D.S.L., and in wealthy surrounding suburbs such as Los Gatos and Saratoga. He argues that the absence of venture funding has actually been an advantage for his company. "What we've hit on is a low-cost design point and used our fast design to get to market first," he said. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/10/technology/10WIRE.html?ex=1024733835&ei=1&en=9d93d47f5c1dae4a HOW TO ADVERTISE --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company From dean at ripperd2.dhs.org Mon Jun 10 13:44:15 2002 From: dean at ripperd2.dhs.org (Dean E.) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:04 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Garage Tinkerers Claim Wireless Last-Mile Solution In-Reply-To: <053301c21095$02f55800$0600000a@Domain> References: <20020610101634.I10867@real-time.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020610133420.03239ad8@ripperd2.dhs.org> could you paste the text? Some of us are lazy and don't want to register... -Dean At 10:39 AM 6/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Read the rest of the article here (may need a free NYTimes account): > >http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/10/technology/10WIRE.html > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob Tanner" >To: >Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 10:16 AM >Subject: [TCWUG] Garage Tinkerers Claim Wireless Last-Mile Solution > > > > From slashdot: > > > > "The NYTimes is reporting that two guys in their garage have designed a >low-cost > > wireless broadband solution that can transmit up to 20 miles. (A previous >story > > described a 7km achievement in Australia.) Their company is called >Etherlinx and > > they use the Wi-Fi 802.11b standard in a repeater antenna that people can >attach > > to the outside of their homes. The technology, which apparently costs >under > > $100, has been operating in a small for-pay trial in Oakland, CA for a >year. Is > > this a solution to the 'last-mile' problem, hope for rural areas, and the >death > > of cable/DSL? Read and be the judge." > > > > -- > > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > > http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. > > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >Minnesota > > http://www.tcwug.org > > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > > > >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >Minnesota >http://www.tcwug.org >tcwug-list@tcwug.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list -- Dean dean@ripperd2.dhs.org http://ripperd2.dhs.org/ Experience is something you don't get until just after you needed it. From joel at helgeson.com Mon Jun 10 13:49:04 2002 From: joel at helgeson.com (Joel R. Helgeson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Garage Tinkerers Claim Wireless Last-Mile Solution In-Reply-To: <053301c21095$02f55800$0600000a@Domain> Message-ID: <000901c210ae$42570bb0$2802a8c0@SECURITY> The whole article: 2 Tinkerers Say They've Found a Cheap Way to Broadband June 10, 2002 By JOHN MARKOFF CUPERTINO, Calif., June 7 - Anyone looking for the next big thing in Silicon Valley should stop here at Layne Holt's garage. Mr. Holt and his business partner, John Furrier, both software engineers, have started a company with a shoestring budget and an ambitious target: the cable and phone companies that currently hold a near-monopoly on high-speed access for the "last mile" between the Internet and the home. At the core of their plan is the inexpensive wireless data standard known as Wi-Fi or 802.11b, which is already shaking up the communications industry, threatening to undermine the business plans of cellular phone companies by offering a much cheaper method for mobile access to the Internet. The pair's company, known as Etherlinx, has taken the 802.11b standard and used it to build a system that can transmit Internet data up to 20 miles at high speeds - enough to blanket entire urban regions and make cable or D.S.L. connections obsolete. Their secret weapon is a technology known as a "software-designed radio," which has permitted them to create an inexpensive repeater antenna that can be attached to the outside of a customer's home. The device, which the Etherlinx executives said they believe can be built in quantity for less than $150 each, would communicate with a central antenna and then convert the signals into the industry-standard Wi-Fi, or wireless fidelity, signal for reception inside the home. Because of the staggering costs of wiring the nation's homes for high-speed networking, only 7 percent, or 7.5 million homes, now have high-speed Internet access, according to a February report from the Federal Communications Commission. The two Etherlinx executives say they have a religious fervor to change that by making broadband available widely and cheaply. "We're bandwidth junkies, and I can't imagine a world in which people don't have broadband," Mr. Furrier said. "That's our mission." Without venture capital backing, in a garage just six blocks from the garage where Steven P. Jobs and Stephen Wozniak launched Apple Computer 26 years ago, Mr. Holt is making his clever and inexpensive radio repeater by modifying inexpensive Wi-Fi cards, the circuitry that sends and receives the signals. Although he has partially broken with the Wi-Fi standard, he argues he is doing just what the unlicensed radio spectrum was originally set aside to encourage - innovative wireless network designs. Mr. Holt, a 54-year-old software designer and engineer who began his career at the Lockheed Corporation in Sunnyvale, Calif., replaces the software that supports the Wi-Fi 802.11b standard with his own code, thereby dramatically extending the range of the cheap, mass-produced hardware. Each repeater contains two cards - one that Mr. Holt has enhanced and another that is able to speak the 802.11b standard to a home computer. Today, while most of the Wi-Fi industry is working on a more complex technology known as "mesh routing," which involves lashing together hundreds or even thousands of short-range transceivers, the Etherlinx developers believe they have found a crude, cost-effective approach that is capable of leapfrogging the last-mile problem. "A French engineer would say this isn't the most elegant solution," Mr. Furrier said, "but we didn't care about that. We took advantage of these cheap commodity chips and we just wanted to make it work." In doing so, they say they believe they not only will be able to skate around the cable and phone companies but dodge the growing industry fears of congestion in the unlicensed Wi-Fi radio band, which is also supporting competing uses such as Bluetooth, an alternative, short-range wireless standard, as well as some wireless telephones. "The Wi-Fi industry is heading for a train wreck," Mr. Furrier said. The Etherlinx technology has been operating in a small for-pay trial in Oakland, Calif., for a year. The company began trials here last month using an antenna atop a high-rise building in neighboring Campbell, Calif., where the company has its corporate offices. Etherlinx is already beginning to attract serious attention from both government officials who are interested in last-mile solutions and corporate executives who believe the lack of high-speed Internet connections is the biggest obstacle to growth in the computer industry. "We have a huge incentive to see the last mile open up," said Graham Wallace, chief executive of Cable and Wireless P.L.C., one of the world's largest Internet backbone companies. To attract industry attention, Etherlinx cobbled together a demonstration antenna on the back of a Jeep Cherokee and took it to an industry conference in Southern California last month. Parked in front of the conference hotel, the founders were able to show Intel's chief executive, Craig R. Barrett, that their technology was capable of offering Internet access to the entire hotel as well as to the homes on a ridge behind the conference center. "I don't think there is a method that has emerged yet as a winner," said Leslie Vadasz, a veteran Intel executive who heads the company's venture arm, "but we are talking to these guys. What they have done is a very smart way of reusing engineering that has been done for other purposes." Etherlinx began the for-pay trial in Oakland last year after the company failed to get venture capital in Silicon Valley. The company is now selling Internet service commercially to about a dozen customers. "The V.C.'s are licking their wounds and they don't believe us," said Mr. Furrier, a 36-year-old networking engineer. "That's why we have taken a go-to-market approach." So far, the company has been run on about $200,000 in private investment - far less than the tens of millions of dollars that have been poured into other Wi-Fi startups. Etherlinx is not the only company taking new approaches to sending wireless data over longer distances in the unlicensed portion of the radio spectrum. The communications and computer industry is now at work on a second-generation standard known as 802.16, which is intended to address longer-distance communications challenges. The latest efforts follow the collapse of an earlier attempt to establish a commercial wireless industry based on line-of-sight technology known as the Multipoint Microwave Distribution System, or M.M.D.S. Giant companies like A T & T, Sprint and WorldCom and startups like Winstar and Teligent all developed M.M.D.S. service, but they have either halted development on their systems or declared bankruptcy. Industry experts said the M.M.D.S. technology failed in part because it required the receiver to be within sight of the transmitter, but also because it required expensive installation and a huge upfront investment to license the spectrum from the government. "The cost of the license for the spectrum killed them," Mr. Holt said. Etherlinx is by no means alone in its approach. Several other companies are also beginning to explore alternatives not requiring line-of-sight that they believe will be more resistant to interference and will be easy for customers to install without expensive on-site help. Nokia has a research group in Silicon Valley that has been trying to develop such technologies, and Iospan Wireless Inc. of San Jose, Calif., and Navini Networks in Richardson, Tex., are selling products that are along the lines of the Etherlinx approach. However, Mr. Furrier said he hoped that speed would outweigh size or capital in determining the success of a business in the market. In addition to the company's Oakland trial, Etherlinx is planning to offer commercial service in Campbell, which is not currently served with D.S.L., and in wealthy surrounding suburbs such as Los Gatos and Saratoga. He argues that the absence of venture funding has actually been an advantage for his company. "What we've hit on is a low-cost design point and used our fast design to get to market first," he said. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/10/technology/10WIRE.html?ex=1024733835&e i=1&en=9d93d47f5c1dae4a HOW TO ADVERTISE --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company Joel R. Helgeson Director of Networking & Security Services SymetriQ Corporation, www.symetriq.com 8500 Normandale Lake Boulevard, Suite 1670 Bloomington, Minnesota 55437-3813 Office: (952) 921-8869 Cell: (651) 270-7521 -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Rob Wentworth Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 10:39 AM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Garage Tinkerers Claim Wireless Last-Mile Solution Read the rest of the article here (may need a free NYTimes account): http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/10/technology/10WIRE.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Tanner" To: Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 10:16 AM Subject: [TCWUG] Garage Tinkerers Claim Wireless Last-Mile Solution > From slashdot: > > "The NYTimes is reporting that two guys in their garage have designed a low-cost > wireless broadband solution that can transmit up to 20 miles. (A previous story > described a 7km achievement in Australia.) Their company is called Etherlinx and > they use the Wi-Fi 802.11b standard in a repeater antenna that people can attach > to the outside of their homes. The technology, which apparently costs under > $100, has been operating in a small for-pay trial in Oakland, CA for a year. Is > this a solution to the 'last-mile' problem, hope for rural areas, and the death > of cable/DSL? Read and be the judge." > > -- > Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 > http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 > http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. > Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 > > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From tanner at real-time.com Mon Jun 10 17:40:18 2002 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Garage Tinkerers Claim Wireless Last-Mile Solution In-Reply-To: <20020610122146.A9318@florence.linkmargin.com>; from andyw@pobox.com on Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 12:21:46PM -0500 References: <20020610101634.I10867@real-time.com> <20020610104830.B10820@techmonkeys.org> <20020610122146.A9318@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <20020610171941.F31493@real-time.com> Quoting Andy Warner (andyw@pobox.com): > > Sounds like they're playing with prism2 cards and something similar to > > the hostAP driver.. they claim to have covered some towns with 2mbit > > data rates, of course, you can already do all this with frequency hopping > > gear that deals better with interference, at 3mbit. Anyone have an NYTimes account and can post the article here or on their web site? -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.mn-linux.org, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 http://www.tcwug.org, Minnesota, Wireless | Coding isn't a crime. Key fingerprint = 6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 From adi at hexapodia.org Mon Jun 10 18:14:28 2002 From: adi at hexapodia.org (Andy Isaacson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Garage Tinkerers Claim Wireless Last-Mile Solution In-Reply-To: <20020610171941.F31493@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 05:19:41PM -0500 References: <20020610101634.I10867@real-time.com> <20020610104830.B10820@techmonkeys.org> <20020610122146.A9318@florence.linkmargin.com> <20020610171941.F31493@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020610180715.A2082@hexapodia.org> On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 05:19:41PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > Anyone have an NYTimes account and can post the article here or on their web > site? I tend to use "cypherpun/cypherpun" to get on... -andy From brent at nordist.net Mon Jun 10 21:47:48 2002 From: brent at nordist.net (Brent J. Nordquist) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys WAP11 - Taking "the plunge" In-Reply-To: <20020604094008.C12865@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: [Sorry for the late reply to this:] On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Andy Warner wrote: > Brent J. Nordquist wrote: > > > It just appears that packets that are too large get (consistently) > > dropped, which means that TCP sessions that only use small packets (such > > as an interactive SSH session) work fine, but as soon as a TCP session > > uses a large packet, that session is no longer usable (since the retries > > are dropped too). Other existing and new sessions continue to work fine. > > By limiting the MTU I no longer experience it at all. > > Does either the AP or the PC card have the RTS/CTS setting enabled ? If > so, what's the packet size set to ? The (LinkSys WAP11 v2.2) AP has the "RTS Threshold" set to 2432 and "Fragmentation Threshold" set to 2346. The config. web page shows those as the maximums, and the default values. I haven't figured out how to check those values on the iBook yet (I'm running Mac OS X and it's an Airport card). > Why are you not using a 1500 byte (e.g. ethernet) mtu ? Because when I do, packets over 576 in size get dropped on the floor. An MTU of 576 on both sides causes the problem to go away. I have no idea why a standard 1500 MTU doesn't work, or why a 576 MTU gets me around the problem (and I am still curious); I just know empirically that it does. I also know the iBook doesn't have this problem with the APs at work. -- Brent J. Nordquist N0BJN Other contact information: http://www.nordist.net/contact.html From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Jun 10 22:28:10 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys WAP11 - Taking "the plunge" In-Reply-To: References: <20020604094008.C12865@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <20020610222012.B13676@botwerks.org> on my iBook i've had some interesting behaviours when connecting to some nokia access points at a couple of airports (denver notably) i've found that these problems go away when i drop the MTU on the wireless adaptor to 1490. apple in their infinite wisdom has not opened up the driver details for the airport card. there are some folks that have reverse engineered some of the interesting parts from the 802.11.framework. there's a link on the macstumbler page [1] to more information as well as a nice airport utility that has the information that you're looking for. the utility is called airport and it lets you get all sorts of dirt on your airport card. when last we saw our hero (Monday, Jun 10, 2002), Brent J. Nordquist was madly tapping out: > [Sorry for the late reply to this:] > > On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Andy Warner wrote: > > > Brent J. Nordquist wrote: > > > > > It just appears that packets that are too large get > > > (consistently) dropped, which means that TCP sessions that only > > > use small packets (such as an interactive SSH session) work > > > fine, but as soon as a TCP session uses a large packet, that > > > session is no longer usable (since the retries are dropped too). > > > Other existing and new sessions continue to work fine. By > > > limiting the MTU I no longer experience it at all. > > > > Does either the AP or the PC card have the RTS/CTS setting enabled > > ? If so, what's the packet size set to ? > > The (LinkSys WAP11 v2.2) AP has the "RTS Threshold" set to 2432 and > "Fragmentation Threshold" set to 2346. The config. web page shows > those as the maximums, and the default values. I haven't figured > out how to check those values on the iBook yet (I'm running Mac OS X > and it's an Airport card). > > > Why are you not using a 1500 byte (e.g. ethernet) mtu ? > > Because when I do, packets over 576 in size get dropped on the > floor. An MTU of 576 on both sides causes the problem to go away. > I have no idea why a standard 1500 MTU doesn't work, or why a 576 > MTU gets me around the problem (and I am still curious); I just know > empirically that it does. I also know the iBook doesn't have this > problem with the APs at work. > [1] - http://homepages.mac.com/macstumber/ -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From poptix at techmonkeys.org Tue Jun 11 04:49:11 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] http://maps.tcwug.org In-Reply-To: <20020608214859.U10820@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 09:48:59PM -0500 References: <20020608214859.U10820@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020611044212.G10820@techmonkeys.org> On Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 09:48:59PM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Feel free to browse on over and check it out [replying to self] I'm going to use this thread to post interesting updates on the page.. tonight I added distance calculation between nodes that have a 'link' between them (the lines going between nodes, these can be added via the node edit page, scroll down) You can see an example of this at http://maps.tcwug.org/node?id=376 where Real-Time has a 'planned' link to Andy Warner, who has another 'planned' link to VISI (yes, i know. the node entry for VISI is just a place holder) -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203 From brent at nordist.net Tue Jun 11 05:58:01 2002 From: brent at nordist.net (Brent J. Nordquist) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys WAP11 - Taking "the plunge" In-Reply-To: <20020610222012.B13676@botwerks.org> Message-ID: Thanks for the info. on the MTU experience you've had, and also: On Mon, 10 Jun 2002, steve ulrich wrote: > there's a link on the macstumbler page [1] to more information as well > as a nice airport utility that has the information that you're looking > for. the utility is called airport and it lets you get all sorts of > dirt on your airport card. Ah! Thanks for the pointer; you're right, "airport -d" certainly has a lot of info. And now I have MacStumbler too. > [1] - http://homepages.mac.com/macstumber/ It's actually "homepage" (singular). -- Brent J. Nordquist N0BJN Other contact information: http://www.nordist.net/contact.html From jay-lists at 3pound.com Tue Jun 11 08:48:41 2002 From: jay-lists at 3pound.com (Jay) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] 7004AWBR for $99, disapponting range - good price -- keep it? In-Reply-To: <20020604142352.3a9dcbf7.jay-lists@3pound.com> References: <20020604072452.36815045.jay-lists@3pound.com> <20020604093031.A12865@florence.linkmargin.com> <20020604142352.3a9dcbf7.jay-lists@3pound.com> Message-ID: <20020611083324.26db3a6f.jay-lists@3pound.com> On Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:23:52 -0500 Jay wrote: > In the last few hours, I'm leaning towards keeping the 7004AWBR (given > the price) and using it at a different location .. which still leaves > me in need of an AP at home. Follow up, for anyone curious: I've since returned he SMC-70004AWBR and the card, my impulse shopping cost me about $20 (partial restock) in the end. The final straw was several users complaining of "needing to be reset" (read: stops working): http://www.practicallynetworked.com/opinions/?pid=377&pg=1&p= Reportedly, the earlier model of this same unit is fairly stable. -Jay From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Jun 11 09:09:21 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] http://maps.tcwug.org In-Reply-To: <20020611044212.G10820@techmonkeys.org> References: <20020608214859.U10820@techmonkeys.org> <20020611044212.G10820@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020611072736.A13784@botwerks.org> matthew- very nicely done. in looking at the nodes it looks like we have a few places where we might be able to have some overlap but it looks like as we had suspected we're pretty well spread out. i think the best hopes we have of getting cooperative node links are between my (pending) second node and AAA and jack who is also in the area. i have my reservations regarding a node between myself and aviateur given the significant foliage between us and the fact that i can't see anything in that direction (despite the fact that i'm actually on a hill) because of the foliage. it seems to me that there might be a couple of different ways to skin this cat. if we're keen on the wired hotspot mode of operation we might want to see about getting more people interested in our activities here. this has the added benefit of getting us more potential access point locations. in order to minimize the pain of doing this for people we should make it as straightforward as possible which brings us back to the cookbook configuration concept. the other way to skin this cat seems to be to find locations where we can put up hub nodes that have decent LOS to a few folks and see about getting wired connectivity to these locations. other thoughts? when last we saw our hero (Tuesday, Jun 11, 2002), Matthew S. Hallacy was madly tapping out: > On Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 09:48:59PM -0500, Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > Feel free to browse on over and check it out > > [replying to self] > > I'm going to use this thread to post interesting updates on the > page.. > > tonight I added distance calculation between nodes that have a > 'link' between them (the lines going between nodes, these can be > added via the node edit page, scroll down) > > You can see an example of this at > > http://maps.tcwug.org/node?id=376 > > where Real-Time has a 'planned' link to Andy Warner, who has another > 'planned' link to VISI (yes, i know. the node entry for VISI is just > a place holder) > > -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From chrise at pobox.com Tue Jun 11 09:22:43 2002 From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] 7004AWBR for $99, disapponting range - good price -- keep it? In-Reply-To: <20020611083324.26db3a6f.jay-lists@3pound.com>; from jay-lists@3pound.com on Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 08:33:24AM -0500 References: <20020604072452.36815045.jay-lists@3pound.com> <20020604093031.A12865@florence.linkmargin.com> <20020604142352.3a9dcbf7.jay-lists@3pound.com> <20020611083324.26db3a6f.jay-lists@3pound.com> Message-ID: <20020611091114.A7726@n0jcf.net> On Tuesday (06/11/2002 at 08:33AM -0500), Jay wrote: > > Follow up, for anyone curious: > > I've since returned he SMC-70004AWBR and the card, my impulse shopping > cost me about $20 (partial restock) in the end. The final straw was > several users complaining of "needing to be reset" (read: stops > working): http://www.practicallynetworked.com/opinions/?pid=377&pg=1&p= > > Reportedly, the earlier model of this same unit is fairly stable. Gee, there's not a Linksys WAP11 v2.2 hidden inside is there? :-) Chris -- Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise From duncan at sodatrain.com Tue Jun 11 11:21:46 2002 From: duncan at sodatrain.com (duncan) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] introductory email... Message-ID: <1023811957.1595.114.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey gang- I a new subscriber to the tcwug list. Looks as if its still pretty cozy, so i thought id introduce myself, and mention why i subscribed. Im pretty new to wireless "stuff". I am looking to bring wireless to my company, and home. Not really sure where to go, other than i need a WAP and some cards. (ive also got a Zaurus that id love to have wireless access with). I kinda interested in what ive seen about opening up wireless access from my house. I live pretty close to AAA. so, ill be lurking at least. Does it really make any difference for a small business ( < 10 wireless nodes) WAP, vs a home WAP? I saw some links to some waps on the tcwug page... are those good for business too? Duncan From joel at helgeson.com Tue Jun 11 21:47:27 2002 From: joel at helgeson.com (Joel R. Helgeson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] introductory email... In-Reply-To: <1023811957.1595.114.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <000001c211ba$cb5faef0$2802a8c0@SECURITY> Welcome to the list, hope to see you at one of our meetings. If you're looking to go with a business environment, I would highly recommend getting a Cisco Access Point. I would not recommend using a consumer grade access point for your business. You'll get greater reliability and distance out of a 'real' access point. You can get used Cisco gear cheap (Aironet 340's & 350's) on eBay. I'm a bit of a Cisco bigot myself, because it works... no exceptions. That and I used to work for Cisco :-) Just my 2 cents... Regards, Joel -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of duncan Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 11:13 AM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: [TCWUG] introductory email... Hey gang- I a new subscriber to the tcwug list. Looks as if its still pretty cozy, so i thought id introduce myself, and mention why i subscribed. Im pretty new to wireless "stuff". I am looking to bring wireless to my company, and home. Not really sure where to go, other than i need a WAP and some cards. (ive also got a Zaurus that id love to have wireless access with). I kinda interested in what ive seen about opening up wireless access from my house. I live pretty close to AAA. so, ill be lurking at least. Does it really make any difference for a small business ( < 10 wireless nodes) WAP, vs a home WAP? I saw some links to some waps on the tcwug page... are those good for business too? Duncan _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Wed Jun 12 10:26:04 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] http://maps.tcwug.org In-Reply-To: <20020611072736.A13784@botwerks.org> References: <20020608214859.U10820@techmonkeys.org> <20020611044212.G10820@techmonkeys.org> <20020611072736.A13784@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <20020612151420.GA2488@autonomous.tv> On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 07:27:36AM -0500, steve ulrich wrote: > > >matthew- > >very nicely done. in looking at the nodes it looks like we have a few yes matthew. very nicely done indeed. >places where we might be able to have some overlap but it looks like >as we had suspected we're pretty well spread out. i think the best >hopes we have of getting cooperative node links are between my >(pending) second node and AAA and jack who is also in the area. yes yes yes. my current radio is an smc2652.; I need to get an external antenna mounted in the near future. Does anyone know off hand the type of connector I need for the smc end? All the same I would like to use something else for this project, like maybe a linux box doing hostAP. >it seems to me that there might be a couple of different ways to skin >this cat. if we're keen on the wired hotspot mode of operation we >might want to see about getting more people interested in our >activities here. this has the added benefit of getting us more >potential access point locations. > >in order to minimize the pain of doing this for people we should make >it as straightforward as possible which brings us back to the cookbook >configuration concept. > >the other way to skin this cat seems to be to find locations where we >can put up hub nodes that have decent LOS to a few folks and see about >getting wired connectivity to these locations. > >other thoughts? > I see no reason why we can't skin all cats :-). I found a couple of nodes yesterday with an essid of PARK_01, and they were near a park that is close to me! Maybe someone is already thinking along these lines? > > -- --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020612/089b7544/attachment.pgp From andyw at pobox.com Wed Jun 12 11:21:07 2002 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] http://maps.tcwug.org In-Reply-To: <20020612151420.GA2488@autonomous.tv>; from spencer@autonomous.tv on Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 10:14:20AM -0500 References: <20020608214859.U10820@techmonkeys.org> <20020611044212.G10820@techmonkeys.org> <20020611072736.A13784@botwerks.org> <20020612151420.GA2488@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20020612111141.A16025@florence.linkmargin.com> SpencerUnderground wrote: > [...] > yes yes yes. my current radio is an smc2652.; I need to get an external > antenna mounted in the near future. Does anyone know off hand the type > of connector I need for the smc end? All the same I would like to use I think it's RP-TNC. These boxes are a little strange, though. I think there is one external and one internal antenna. You might want to check by cracking the case open and checking (in which case you can replace the connector if you want with a N, SMA, whatever) - if I'm right then you'll need to make sure you can tweak the diversity to aim the radio at the external connector. > something else for this project, like maybe a linux box doing hostAP. I can recommend that, though don't waste anything with significant CPU power on it, there are busy loops in the data xfer routines that'll chew up 40% of a 800MHz cpu. > I see no reason why we can't skin all cats :-). I found a couple of > nodes yesterday with an essid of PARK_01, and they were near a park that > is close to me! Maybe someone is already thinking along these lines? Covering your favourite park is a pretty popular idea, I know several people who aim antennae & move picnic tables around so they can work/surf at their local park. -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 From natecars at real-time.com Wed Jun 12 12:06:23 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] http://maps.tcwug.org In-Reply-To: <20020612151420.GA2488@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Jun 2002, SpencerUnderground wrote: > I see no reason why we can't skin all cats :-). I found a couple of > nodes yesterday with an essid of PARK_01, and they were near a park > that is close to me! Maybe someone is already thinking along these > lines? Someone probably wanted to be able to take a walk in the park and get web access.. just like I like being able to go to my backyard and play MP3's over my wireless 'net. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From jerryg at webguydesign.com Wed Jun 12 12:23:46 2002 From: jerryg at webguydesign.com (Jerry Gapinski - Web Guy Design, Inc.) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:05 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Which park? RE: http://maps.tcwug.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c21234$85ce89e0$e63fde42@jgg> Hi, Which park? I get around Lake Calhoun all the time. Jerry -----Original Message----- > I see no reason why we can't skin all cats :-). I found a couple of > nodes yesterday with an essid of PARK_01, and they were near a park > that is close to me! Maybe someone is already thinking along these > lines? From cheath at interlinkcom.com Wed Jun 12 16:38:15 2002 From: cheath at interlinkcom.com (Heath, Chandler) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting Message-ID: <43DEC38D2C1FB14F81B4B42CDDC034E830F25D@interlink-sv1.interlinkcom.com> For the next meeting (July/August?) I could bring in a Spectrum Analyzer and some of my gear that I use to do site interference studies. I could also bring in the monster 32" grid parabolic. Chandler -----Original Message----- From: Clay Fandre [mailto:clay@fandre.com] Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:54 AM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting Still looking for a speaker for the TCLUG meeting on the 8th. You don't have to talk, just come and show off some cool antennas, GPS and anything else. Nate, how about you? I know you have some cool stuff? Think you could set your alarm? -- Clay On Mon, 20 May 2002, Clay Fandre wrote: > Anyone interested in giving a talk at the next TCLUG meeting? (June > 8th) I'd like to have the topic "Wireless with Linux" or something. > Maybe bring in an AP and configure a 802.11 card in Linux. Anyone > using a GPS with Linux? > > -- Clay _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ From andyw at pobox.com Wed Jun 12 17:11:00 2002 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <43DEC38D2C1FB14F81B4B42CDDC034E830F25D@interlink-sv1.interlinkcom.com>; from cheath@interlinkcom.com on Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 04:25:07PM -0500 References: <43DEC38D2C1FB14F81B4B42CDDC034E830F25D@interlink-sv1.interlinkcom.com> Message-ID: <20020612165638.D16995@florence.linkmargin.com> Heath, Chandler wrote: > For the next meeting (July/August?) I could bring in a Spectrum Analyzer and > some of my gear that I use to do site interference studies. I could also > bring in the monster 32" grid parabolic. Sounds like a great idea, although I'm sure there's plenty of Cisco-induced RF flying around at the usual meeting place, maybe we can get it turned off for a while. Is your unit calibrated to measure output power ? Will it take < 200mW (+23dBm) without external attenuators ? I'm sure some people would like to measure the actual output power of assorted pieces of equipment. -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 From joel at helgeson.com Wed Jun 12 17:11:26 2002 From: joel at helgeson.com (Joel R. Helgeson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <43DEC38D2C1FB14F81B4B42CDDC034E830F25D@interlink-sv1.interlinkcom.com> Message-ID: <000a01c2125c$729258c0$2802a8c0@SECURITY> I would love to see this stuff at the Twin Cities WIRELESS users group. Please note that he is looking for people to speak at the LINUX users group. :-) Regards, Joel -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Heath, Chandler Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 4:25 PM To: 'tcwug-list@tcwug.org' Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting For the next meeting (July/August?) I could bring in a Spectrum Analyzer and some of my gear that I use to do site interference studies. I could also bring in the monster 32" grid parabolic. Chandler -----Original Message----- From: Clay Fandre [mailto:clay@fandre.com] Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:54 AM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting Still looking for a speaker for the TCLUG meeting on the 8th. You don't have to talk, just come and show off some cool antennas, GPS and anything else. Nate, how about you? I know you have some cool stuff? Think you could set your alarm? -- Clay On Mon, 20 May 2002, Clay Fandre wrote: > Anyone interested in giving a talk at the next TCLUG meeting? (June > 8th) I'd like to have the topic "Wireless with Linux" or something. > Maybe bring in an AP and configure a 802.11 card in Linux. Anyone > using a GPS with Linux? > > -- Clay _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From cheath at interlinkcom.com Wed Jun 12 17:27:04 2002 From: cheath at interlinkcom.com (Heath, Chandler) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting Message-ID: <43DEC38D2C1FB14F81B4B42CDDC034E830F261@interlink-sv1.interlinkcom.com> You are right! Too many acronyms. I don't discriminate ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Joel R. Helgeson [mailto:joel@helgeson.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:00 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting I would love to see this stuff at the Twin Cities WIRELESS users group. Please note that he is looking for people to speak at the LINUX users group. :-) Regards, Joel -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Heath, Chandler Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 4:25 PM To: 'tcwug-list@tcwug.org' Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting For the next meeting (July/August?) I could bring in a Spectrum Analyzer and some of my gear that I use to do site interference studies. I could also bring in the monster 32" grid parabolic. Chandler -----Original Message----- From: Clay Fandre [mailto:clay@fandre.com] Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:54 AM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting Still looking for a speaker for the TCLUG meeting on the 8th. You don't have to talk, just come and show off some cool antennas, GPS and anything else. Nate, how about you? I know you have some cool stuff? Think you could set your alarm? -- Clay On Mon, 20 May 2002, Clay Fandre wrote: > Anyone interested in giving a talk at the next TCLUG meeting? (June > 8th) I'd like to have the topic "Wireless with Linux" or something. > Maybe bring in an AP and configure a 802.11 card in Linux. Anyone > using a GPS with Linux? > > -- Clay _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ From joel at helgeson.com Wed Jun 12 17:55:05 2002 From: joel at helgeson.com (Joel R. Helgeson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <43DEC38D2C1FB14F81B4B42CDDC034E830F261@interlink-sv1.interlinkcom.com> Message-ID: <001501c21261$b77c9cc0$2802a8c0@SECURITY> Same thing happened to me. I offered to give a presentation, and then had to recant. He needs to clarify that it is for the Linux users group. Just the same, I look forward to seeing you at our next TC Wireless UG meeting. Regards, Joel -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Heath, Chandler Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:15 PM To: 'tcwug-list@tcwug.org' Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting You are right! Too many acronyms. I don't discriminate ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Joel R. Helgeson [mailto:joel@helgeson.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:00 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting I would love to see this stuff at the Twin Cities WIRELESS users group. Please note that he is looking for people to speak at the LINUX users group. :-) Regards, Joel -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Heath, Chandler Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 4:25 PM To: 'tcwug-list@tcwug.org' Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting For the next meeting (July/August?) I could bring in a Spectrum Analyzer and some of my gear that I use to do site interference studies. I could also bring in the monster 32" grid parabolic. Chandler -----Original Message----- From: Clay Fandre [mailto:clay@fandre.com] Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:54 AM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting Still looking for a speaker for the TCLUG meeting on the 8th. You don't have to talk, just come and show off some cool antennas, GPS and anything else. Nate, how about you? I know you have some cool stuff? Think you could set your alarm? -- Clay On Mon, 20 May 2002, Clay Fandre wrote: > Anyone interested in giving a talk at the next TCLUG meeting? (June > 8th) I'd like to have the topic "Wireless with Linux" or something. > Maybe bring in an AP and configure a 802.11 card in Linux. Anyone > using a GPS with Linux? > > -- Clay _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From cheath at interlinkcom.com Wed Jun 12 18:40:39 2002 From: cheath at interlinkcom.com (Heath, Chandler) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting Message-ID: <43DEC38D2C1FB14F81B4B42CDDC034E830F263@interlink-sv1.interlinkcom.com> When is the next? -----Original Message----- From: Joel R. Helgeson [mailto:joel@helgeson.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:37 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting Same thing happened to me. I offered to give a presentation, and then had to recant. He needs to clarify that it is for the Linux users group. Just the same, I look forward to seeing you at our next TC Wireless UG meeting. Regards, Joel -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Heath, Chandler Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:15 PM To: 'tcwug-list@tcwug.org' Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting You are right! Too many acronyms. I don't discriminate ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Joel R. Helgeson [mailto:joel@helgeson.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:00 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting I would love to see this stuff at the Twin Cities WIRELESS users group. Please note that he is looking for people to speak at the LINUX users group. :-) Regards, Joel -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Heath, Chandler Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 4:25 PM To: 'tcwug-list@tcwug.org' Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting For the next meeting (July/August?) I could bring in a Spectrum Analyzer and some of my gear that I use to do site interference studies. I could also bring in the monster 32" grid parabolic. Chandler -----Original Message----- From: Clay Fandre [mailto:clay@fandre.com] Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:54 AM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting Still looking for a speaker for the TCLUG meeting on the 8th. You don't have to talk, just come and show off some cool antennas, GPS and anything else. Nate, how about you? I know you have some cool stuff? Think you could set your alarm? -- Clay On Mon, 20 May 2002, Clay Fandre wrote: > Anyone interested in giving a talk at the next TCLUG meeting? (June > 8th) I'd like to have the topic "Wireless with Linux" or something. > Maybe bring in an AP and configure a 802.11 card in Linux. Anyone > using a GPS with Linux? > > -- Clay _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ From joel at helgeson.com Wed Jun 12 19:10:05 2002 From: joel at helgeson.com (Joel R. Helgeson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting In-Reply-To: <43DEC38D2C1FB14F81B4B42CDDC034E830F263@interlink-sv1.interlinkcom.com> Message-ID: <000001c2126c$be1f1070$2802a8c0@SECURITY> First Tuesday of each month, held at the Cisco sales office in Bloomington. The next meeting will be July 2nd @ 6:30. -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Heath, Chandler Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 6:03 PM To: 'tcwug-list@tcwug.org' Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting When is the next? -----Original Message----- From: Joel R. Helgeson [mailto:joel@helgeson.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:37 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting Same thing happened to me. I offered to give a presentation, and then had to recant. He needs to clarify that it is for the Linux users group. Just the same, I look forward to seeing you at our next TC Wireless UG meeting. Regards, Joel -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Heath, Chandler Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:15 PM To: 'tcwug-list@tcwug.org' Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting You are right! Too many acronyms. I don't discriminate ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Joel R. Helgeson [mailto:joel@helgeson.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:00 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting I would love to see this stuff at the Twin Cities WIRELESS users group. Please note that he is looking for people to speak at the LINUX users group. :-) Regards, Joel -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Heath, Chandler Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 4:25 PM To: 'tcwug-list@tcwug.org' Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting For the next meeting (July/August?) I could bring in a Spectrum Analyzer and some of my gear that I use to do site interference studies. I could also bring in the monster 32" grid parabolic. Chandler -----Original Message----- From: Clay Fandre [mailto:clay@fandre.com] Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:54 AM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Speaker for next TCLUG meeting Still looking for a speaker for the TCLUG meeting on the 8th. You don't have to talk, just come and show off some cool antennas, GPS and anything else. Nate, how about you? I know you have some cool stuff? Think you could set your alarm? -- Clay On Mon, 20 May 2002, Clay Fandre wrote: > Anyone interested in giving a talk at the next TCLUG meeting? (June > 8th) I'd like to have the topic "Wireless with Linux" or something. > Maybe bring in an AP and configure a 802.11 card in Linux. Anyone > using a GPS with Linux? > > -- Clay _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com ________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From wirelessguyinstpaul at attbi.com Wed Jun 12 21:50:02 2002 From: wirelessguyinstpaul at attbi.com (P. Sheehy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Linksys WAP11 - Taking "the plunge" References: Message-ID: <3D09577E.FC8E98D9@attbi.com> With regard to my original post (pasted below), thanks for the advice and the interesting thread. I did NOT buy a WAP11 and couldn't find a Cisco AP on eBay. I was able to find a factory recertified SMC2682 Bridge and it is functioning very nicely as an AP. Once I figured out how to get it up and running it has not hiccuped even once. The web interface is very easy to access. I can do it from the wireless client. So far, so good. Attractive thing about this unit is removable whip antenna leaving open possibility for easy installation of external antenna when I get around to it. Range with the whip antenna on a second floor by a window is a couple of back yards. P. Sheehy ==== Original post ========================================================= 1. I'm ready to set up an AP. Have one wireless client set up. Have high speed internet access. 2. Would love to get a Cisco Aironet 350 series but ... the price is just a little up there. 3. The word I'm getting is that the WAP11 is a good low-price choice. 4. Before I take the plunge ... anyone have any last words of advice? 5. Anybody have or know of any great deals that I don't want to pass up? Thanks in advance for your help. P. Sheehy From joel at helgeson.com Wed Jun 12 22:23:11 2002 From: joel at helgeson.com (Joel R. Helgeson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Ebay fun... In-Reply-To: <000e01c1f6bd$9fd8c540$3201a8c0@jennifer> Message-ID: <000a01c21288$8f1b04c0$2802a8c0@SECURITY> Here's some solder-on/Crimp-on RP-TNC connectors to connect to Aironet AP's if yer interested... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2031428456 Regards, Joel -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Alex Hartman Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 1:25 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: [TCWUG] Ebay fun... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2022765977 For those interested in doing some p2p stuff, he's got 10 of them, and a $70/ea that'd do some nice infrastructure for a part of the cities... -- Alex Hartman - goober@goobe.net PGP Key fingerprint = 26 41 19 56 19 81 E2 BC EE C8 1D F4 DB B8 ED B8 "Watch out for that bus!" _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From bkrebs at mn.rr.com Thu Jun 13 19:36:01 2002 From: bkrebs at mn.rr.com (Brian Krebs) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Is the list still working? Message-ID: <001301c21339$e0bd6f50$6401a8c0@brian> I don't think I've received any new posts in my e-mail today, so I'm wondering if it's still working. If it is, I have some questions for everyone. I'm using a BEFW11S4 V.2 and a WAP11 V.3. Linksys recently came out with a new firmware for the AP and a new driver for the card. The firmware upgrade went without any hitches, but it also wiped out all of my previous settings. The biggest problem was that I use port forwarding so I can PCAnywhere into my computer at home from work. I had quite a few settings inputted into the port forwarding of the web page interface and now I need to reinput them in order for everything to work. Unfortunately, Linksys does not tell you this in their instructions for upgrading your firmware. Does anyone know if there is a file that remains after upgrading that contains all of these settings? BTW, the card driver upgrade does the same thing in that it wipes out all of your TCP/IP settings, so you need to reinput them as well. This is my first post to the TCWUG and I've had a great time reading about what everyone is doing to try and get wireless access on a large scale in the TC's. Also, I use WinXP and not Linux(please don't hate me). It seems like a lot of the posts are in regards to Linux, and I think that might scare some of the non-technos from getting involved. I think if the site was made a little more friendly for them, we might get more people inputting their AP's to the map and that might make a bigger network more possible. There are a lot of intelligent, knowledgeable people that post to this site, and I believe that if we can help people that are new to wireless, we can create a great wireless community. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020613/9d613466/attachment.htm From spencer at autonomous.tv Fri Jun 14 00:47:49 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:06 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Is the list still working? In-Reply-To: <001301c21339$e0bd6f50$6401a8c0@brian> References: <001301c21339$e0bd6f50$6401a8c0@brian> Message-ID: <20020614054340.GD2488@autonomous.tv> On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 07:24:36PM -0500, Brian Krebs wrote: >I don't think I've received any new posts in my e-mail today, so I'm wondering if it's still working. > yes it is, your email client is just VERY broken. >If it is, I have some questions for everyone. I'm using a BEFW11S4 V.2 and a WAP11 V.3. Linksys recently came out with a new firmware for the AP and a new driver for the card. The firmware upgrade went without any hitches, but it also wiped out all of my previous settings. The biggest problem was that I use port forwarding so I can PCAnywhere into my computer at home from work. I had quite a few settings inputted into the port forwarding of the web page interface and now I need to reinput them in order for everything to work. Unfortunately, Linksys does not tell you this in their instructions for upgrading your firmware. Does anyone know if there is a file that remains after upgrading that contains all of these settings? BTW, the card driver upgrade does the same thing in that it wipes out all of your TCP/IP settings, so you need to reinput them as well. > PLEASE TURN OFF HTML IN YOUR EMAIL CLIENT. IT MAKES YOUR POST HARD TO READ. KIND OF LIKE WHEN PEOPLE TYPE IN ALL CAPS. :) Anyway, if you stay interested ( which I hope you do) and active on the list you will want to "mind your manners a little". I mean this in the most minnesotan of ways. Alot of folkes on the list do not use outlook to view mail. And viewing html mail in "sane" email clients is kind of a PITA ( pain in the ass ). So, welcome to TCWUG, leave your html mail at the office. >This is my first post to the TCWUG and I've had a great time reading about what everyone is doing to try and get wireless access on a large scale in the TC's. Also, I use WinXP and not Linux(please don't hate me). It seems like a lot of the posts are in regards to Linux, and I think that might scare some of the non-technos from getting involved. I think if the site was made a little more friendly for them, we might get more people inputting their AP's to the map and that might make a bigger network more possible. > >There are a lot of intelligent, knowledgeable people that post to this site, and I believe that if we can help people that are new to wireless, we can create a great wireless community. FYI, there is a utilitly that will save your current configuration somewhere on that Linksys. I think it is on, or near the upgrade firmware tab in the configuration screen. Live and learn ( I am speaking from experience on mucking up things and learning the hard way. ) that is the only/best way. For PCAnywhere to work you need to open two ports on your firewall (both udp and tcp). ( The WAP11 in your case. ) By default PCAnywhere uses ports 5631 (data) 5632 (status). You can change the default behaviour of PCAnywhere to use any two ports you choose. The help menu and the symantec.com web-site can guide you through that. As far as your card goes, enable dhcp on your Linksys and set your client to accept dhcp leases. Backups == good :-) -- --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 From v0key at yahoo.com Sun Jun 16 12:47:04 2002 From: v0key at yahoo.com (Richard T Nechanicky) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Cisco Aironet 1200...Thoughts??? In-Reply-To: <000001c211ba$cb5faef0$2802a8c0@SECURITY> Message-ID: <20020616173604.61909.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> Has anyone shelled out the coin for the somewhat new Cisco 1200 Aironet series AP...? http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/pd/witc/ao1200ap/ I am thinking of biting the bullet on this one so I can use it with my existing ap340 as well as start meddling with 802.11a (the 1200 claims to bridge the two standards so-to-speak)...please advise if anyone has any experience or hearsay... Thanks, Rich __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From v0key at yahoo.com Sun Jun 16 12:48:08 2002 From: v0key at yahoo.com (Richard T Nechanicky) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Cisco Aironet 1200...Thoughts??? In-Reply-To: <000001c211ba$cb5faef0$2802a8c0@SECURITY> Message-ID: <20020616173624.5215.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Has anyone shelled out the coin for the somewhat new Cisco 1200 Aironet series AP...? http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/pd/witc/ao1200ap/ I am thinking of biting the bullet on this one so I can use it with my existing ap340 as well as start meddling with 802.11a (the 1200 claims to bridge the two standards so-to-speak)...please advise if anyone has any experience or hearsay... Thanks, Rich __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From joel at helgeson.com Sun Jun 16 15:35:56 2002 From: joel at helgeson.com (Joel R. Helgeson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Cisco Aironet 1200...Thoughts??? In-Reply-To: <20020616173604.61909.qmail@web21102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c21574$d63ce5a0$2802a8c0@SECURITY> I've got one. It's a pretty slick looking box. It does not come with the 802.11a radio yet. It only comes with the .11b radio. It does not come with ANY antennas, they must be ordered separately. This little unit can be powered through a standard power adapter (like the 340) or inline power (like the 350). The 802.11a radio, when it is released, will come with its own captured antennas. It is all part of the .11a specification. If you have dual radios in the 1200, you CANNOT power the radio over a powered switch (such as a 3524xl-pwr). It draws too much current. You MUST use the inline power module that you purchase separately from the switch. It comes with a nifty wall mounting bracket. You mount the bracket to the wall, then slide the AP in place, then you can put a small padlock on the AP to secure it to the bracket, this is of course to keep it from walking away. I'm very impressed with the unit; I just received it this past week at work. I'll let you know as I play more with it. Regards, Joel -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Richard T Nechanicky Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 12:36 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: [TCWUG] Cisco Aironet 1200...Thoughts??? Has anyone shelled out the coin for the somewhat new Cisco 1200 Aironet series AP...? http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/pd/witc/ao1200ap/ I am thinking of biting the bullet on this one so I can use it with my existing ap340 as well as start meddling with 802.11a (the 1200 claims to bridge the two standards so-to-speak)...please advise if anyone has any experience or hearsay... Thanks, Rich __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Sun Jun 16 20:42:04 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] standards and stuff Message-ID: <20020617013215.GH8830@autonomous.tv> I have a few thoughts and comments on the subject of standards. More importantly tcwug standards. How do we want to go about our name conventions? How do we want to structure our IP's? Do we want to attempt to have "seamless roaming"? And if we do, do we want to have many tcwug essid's or maybe .tcwug.org? Jima suggested we have .tcwug.org for the WAN side IP's. =20 Seamless roaming , to me, implies that one can go from one AP to the next without adjusting your settings. If we have .tcwug.org essid's this not permit perfect seamless roaming. If we had this naming scheme and coordinated all our IP's in the same subnet we could have "disected roaming". This would enable one to keep an ssh session open between different AP's. I really like the idea of seamless roaming. However, I also like the idea of breaking up the naming into neighborhoods. I live in the Longfellow 'hood. I have an AP with essid AAA. So I could have an Access Point name (not essid) of AAA.Longfellow.tcwug.org. ( I am mainly just typing/thinking out loud). I am seeing alot of little dots on maps.tcwug.org in the Longfellow 'hood. We should begin to "connect the dots". I have been playing with these little D-Link 900AP's. They are inexpensive and very functional. They are based on the Atmel chipset so they are configurable with the Atmel utility. Nate has the utilities on his site ( I don't feel right posting the url tho, Nate?) There is also a Linux application for configuring the Atmel radios via snmp. http://ap-utils.polesye.net/ It is still fairly buggy, but it is cool. It also has some handy mrtg functionality as well. I tried to use the ap-Atmel utility and had minor success. I well keep an eye on this project. I am sure there are some more snmp utilities out there for Linux/OS X. Anyone else have an good experience with *nix AP utils. Well, I am eager to get some connectivity to other wuggers in the near future. I should have an omni and I directional mounted on my house in the next couple of weeks. Hopefully on my van as well :) Is anyone up for the challenge? -- --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020616/d21a0cb1/attachment.pgp From joel at helgeson.com Sun Jun 16 20:43:29 2002 From: joel at helgeson.com (Joel R. Helgeson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Cisco Aironet 1200...Thoughts??? In-Reply-To: <000001c21574$d63ce5a0$2802a8c0@SECURITY> Message-ID: <000501c215a0$17fb48d0$2802a8c0@SECURITY> Correction: The inline power modules are sold separately from the Access Point. Some assembly required, your parents help put it together... I will be more than willing to sell you, or anyone else on this list and a member of the TCWUG Cisco gear at my cost. My cost for the Cisco 1200 is around $630, I think. Regards, Joel R. Helgeson -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Joel R. Helgeson Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 3:32 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Cisco Aironet 1200...Thoughts??? I've got one. It's a pretty slick looking box. It does not come with the 802.11a radio yet. It only comes with the .11b radio. It does not come with ANY antennas, they must be ordered separately. This little unit can be powered through a standard power adapter (like the 340) or inline power (like the 350). The 802.11a radio, when it is released, will come with its own captured antennas. It is all part of the .11a specification. If you have dual radios in the 1200, you CANNOT power the radio over a powered switch (such as a 3524xl-pwr). It draws too much current. You MUST use the inline power module that you purchase separately from the switch. It comes with a nifty wall mounting bracket. You mount the bracket to the wall, then slide the AP in place, then you can put a small padlock on the AP to secure it to the bracket, this is of course to keep it from walking away. I'm very impressed with the unit; I just received it this past week at work. I'll let you know as I play more with it. Regards, Joel -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org] On Behalf Of Richard T Nechanicky Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 12:36 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: [TCWUG] Cisco Aironet 1200...Thoughts??? Has anyone shelled out the coin for the somewhat new Cisco 1200 Aironet series AP...? http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/pd/witc/ao1200ap/ I am thinking of biting the bullet on this one so I can use it with my existing ap340 as well as start meddling with 802.11a (the 1200 claims to bridge the two standards so-to-speak)...please advise if anyone has any experience or hearsay... Thanks, Rich __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Tue Jun 18 03:32:02 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] connecting dots Message-ID: <20020618082010.GE21586@autonomous.tv> I now have (temporarily) a 24db parabolic antenna and 500 mW amplifier for "testing" purposes. I see a few links on the web site that are planned. It would be quite easy and fun to test these links. I do not know how long I will have this equiptment in my possesion, but I would love to donate my time and whatnot to testing the links between some of the tcwug nodes. I also have a 8db omni that we can use if there is not already at one the prospective sites. And if there are some sights that are still in the "well.. I don't know if it would work anyway" stages, I have access to enough AP's that we can certainly set up a connection from point A to point B without needing anything other than power. And of course, both Matt and I have inverters in our vehicles, so really, we can test a link between any two points (ground level), and gather lots of interesting data. more random thouhts... -- --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020618/0aa669dd/attachment.pgp From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Jun 18 07:49:08 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] standards and stuff In-Reply-To: <20020617013215.GH8830@autonomous.tv> References: <20020617013215.GH8830@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20020618074631.B31580@botwerks.org> comments inline ... when last we saw our hero (Sunday, Jun 16, 2002), SpencerUnderground was madly tapping out: > I have a few thoughts and comments on the subject of standards. > More importantly tcwug standards. How do we want to go about our > name conventions? How do we want to structure our IP's? Do we want > to attempt to have "seamless roaming"? And if we do, do we want to > have many tcwug essid's or maybe .tcwug.org? Jima > suggested we have .tcwug.org for the WAN side IP's. > =20 i think that's a nice way to handle the naming of the ssid and the gw addresses. i think that we might want to distribute our dns a bit and we need to make provisions for folks that have dynamic addresses (from cable providers, etc) it might not be a bad thing to either develop tutorials for these users for either doing signed updates (ala bind 9) or wrap a client up that allows them to determine what their external ip is and notify the server(s). > Seamless roaming , to me, implies that one can go from one AP to the > next without adjusting your settings. If we have .tcwug.org > essid's this not permit perfect seamless roaming. If we had this > naming scheme and coordinated all our IP's in the same subnet we > could have "disected roaming". This would enable one to keep an ssh > session open between different AP's. this isn't entirely accurate. even if the ssid were to remain the same there's the not so small matter of providing seamless routing and handling the changing external addresses in the cases where nat is used. this will cause your ssh sessions to drop. the only real solution for this is either mobile ip, or a really big bridged network. this would allow a single ip address to be used for the session by the client and the appropriate handling of the session via the home gateway using mobile ip. the bridged example is pretty easy to work out. unfortunately, commercial mobile-ip implementations are still in their infancy or are out of the reach of most users. i don't know what the status of mobile-ip is on the free unices right now. i seem to recall that there was an implementation of mobile ipv4 at CMU some time ago. this seems like another layer of infrastructure complication right now. setting these issues aside for the moment - coordination of ssid's and external gateway numbering seems like a really good idea. i don't think we're going to address the issue of seamless roaming in the near term. however, we can start putting some structure to the plans and getting people hooked up together. ok - comments weren't so much inline as the were just plunked in the middle. ;-) > I really like the idea of seamless roaming. However, I also like > the idea of breaking up the naming into neighborhoods. I live in > the Longfellow 'hood. I have an AP with essid AAA. So I could have > an Access Point name (not essid) of AAA.Longfellow.tcwug.org. ( I > am mainly just typing/thinking out loud). > > I am seeing alot of little dots on maps.tcwug.org in the Longfellow > 'hood. We should begin to "connect the dots". I have been playing > with these little D-Link 900AP's. They are inexpensive and very > functional. They are based on the Atmel chipset so they are > configurable with the Atmel utility. Nate has the utilities on his > site ( I don't feel right posting the url tho, Nate?) There is also > a Linux application for configuring the Atmel radios via snmp. > http://ap-utils.polesye.net/ It is still fairly buggy, but it is > cool. It also has some handy mrtg functionality as well. I tried > to use the ap-Atmel utility and had minor success. I well keep an > eye on this project. I am sure there are some more snmp utilities > out there for Linux/OS X. Anyone else have an good experience with > *nix AP utils. > > Well, I am eager to get some connectivity to other wuggers in the > near future. I should have an omni and I directional mounted on my > house in the next couple of weeks. Hopefully on my van as well :) > Is anyone up for the challenge? -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020618/e0070f88/attachment.pgp From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Jun 18 08:19:01 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] free (or at least discounted) stuff Message-ID: <20020618080903.C31580@botwerks.org> all- i received the oreilly and associates care package yesterday and there were a couple of interesting items which i'll place up for grabs. i have plenty of these discount coupons for 20% off of books and oreilly conferences when ordered directly from oreilly and associates. folks who are interested in these can contact me directly and we can hook up to exchange this. there are discount codes and such on it so i won't post these to the list but the info is available on request. i also have the following books which are available to interested parties. a book review (perhaps we can start the library section of the web site) or posting on the list of what you thought of the book would likely go some ways to keeping these books coming from the publisher. qty title ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 building wireless community networks (author: rob flickenger) 1 802.11 wireless networks - the definitive guide (author: matthew s. gast) let me know if you're interested... -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Jun 18 08:26:06 2002 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] standards and stuff In-Reply-To: <20020618074631.B31580@botwerks.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, steve ulrich wrote: > i think that's a nice way to handle the naming of the ssid and the gw > addresses. i think that we might want to distribute our dns a bit and > we need to make provisions for folks that have dynamic addresses (from > cable providers, etc) it might not be a bad thing to either develop > tutorials for these users for either doing signed updates (ala bind 9) > or wrap a client up that allows them to determine what their external > ip is and notify the server(s). I've hacked together a fairly simple way to do the latter. I've had client machines periodically run wget (through cron), hitting a CGI script on a web server, which checks the IP (via the $REMOTE_ADDR variable) against the IP it has for the hostname (specified in the request). If it's the same, nothing happens; if it's different, it updates the DNS record. Sample command line: wget -q -O /dev/null "http://dyndns.domain.com/cgi-bin/dyndns.cgi?host=" (The -q is "quiet," removing unnecessary output; the -O /dev/null sends the output from the CGI script to the bit bucket. Hence, this command should run silently.) I've been using this basic design in about four incarnations for 3-4 years. > when last we saw our hero (Sunday, Jun 16, 2002), > SpencerUnderground was madly tapping out: > > I really like the idea of seamless roaming. However, I also like > > the idea of breaking up the naming into neighborhoods. I live in > > the Longfellow 'hood. I have an AP with essid AAA. So I could have > > an Access Point name (not essid) of AAA.Longfellow.tcwug.org. ( I > > am mainly just typing/thinking out loud). That idea seems vaguely familiar. Jima From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Jun 18 09:41:48 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] standards and stuff In-Reply-To: References: <20020618074631.B31580@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <20020618083454.E31580@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002), Jima was madly tapping out: > On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, steve ulrich wrote: > > i think that's a nice way to handle the naming of the ssid and the > > gw addresses. i think that we might want to distribute our dns a > > bit and we need to make provisions for folks that have dynamic > > addresses (from cable providers, etc) it might not be a bad thing > > to either develop tutorials for these users for either doing > > signed updates (ala bind 9) or wrap a client up that allows them > > to determine what their external ip is and notify the server(s). > > I've hacked together a fairly simple way to do the latter. I've > had client machines periodically run wget (through cron), hitting a > CGI script on a web server, which checks the IP (via the > $REMOTE_ADDR variable) against the IP it has for the hostname > (specified in the request). If it's the same, nothing happens; if > it's different, it updates the DNS record. Sample command line: > > wget -q -O /dev/null > "http://dyndns.domain.com/cgi-bin/dyndns.cgi?host=" i was thinking of something precisely along these lines. my goal in having something along these lines is to allow folks who aren't running a *nix to host nodes which fall into the scheme correctly while obviating the complexities associated with the signed updates. i think that we'd need something with a bit more security to avoid replay attacks but i think you're dead on here. > > (The -q is "quiet," removing unnecessary output; the -O /dev/null > sends the output from the CGI script to the bit bucket. Hence, > this command should run silently.) I've been using this basic > design in about four incarnations for 3-4 years. > > > when last we saw our hero (Sunday, Jun 16, 2002), > > SpencerUnderground was madly tapping out: > > > I really like the idea of seamless roaming. However, I also > > > like the idea of breaking up the naming into neighborhoods. I > > > live in the Longfellow 'hood. I have an AP with essid AAA. So > > > I could have an Access Point name (not essid) of > > > AAA.Longfellow.tcwug.org. ( I am mainly just typing/thinking > > > out loud). > > That idea seems vaguely familiar. > -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From chrome at real-time.com Tue Jun 18 09:43:46 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] standards and stuff In-Reply-To: ; from jima@beer.tclug.org on Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 08:20:32AM -0500 References: <20020618074631.B31580@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <20020618093329.G5242@real-time.com> On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 08:20:32AM -0500, Jima wrote: > On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, steve ulrich wrote: > > i think that we might want to distribute our dns a bit and > > we need to make provisions for folks that have dynamic addresses (from > > cable providers, etc) > I've hacked together a fairly simple way to do the latter. I've had > client machines periodically run wget (through cron), hitting a CGI script > on a web server, which checks the IP (via the $REMOTE_ADDR variable) > against the IP it has for the hostname (specified in the request). If > it's the same, nothing happens; if it's different, it updates the DNS > record. Since there was some discussion about setting up our own webserver/auth server/whatever at a co-lo, I went ahead and did it. killdeer.tcwug.org [1] there is currently *no content* on it; but if/when we'd like our own box for DNS, authentication, downloads, whatever; there it is. [1] For those not familiar with our birds, a killdeer is a small-medium sized white and brown bird with three black bands around its neck. It's cry sounds like 'killdeer! killdeer! killdeer!', hence the name. I figured bird names would be a good naming scheme for a wireless group's computers, 'robin' and 'bluejay' were too lame, and the box isn't big enough to justify 'eagle' or 'thunderbird'. 'killdeer' is the first thing that came to mind. Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From natecars at natecarlson.com Tue Jun 18 10:15:49 2002 From: natecars at natecarlson.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:07 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] [Fw: [Design] FreeS/WAN OLS WAVEsec plans] Message-ID: Message from the FreeS/WAN design list. Very cool! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | nate carlson | natecars@natecarlson.com | http://www.natecarlson.com | | brainbench mvp for linux admin -- http://www.brainbench.com | | Depriving some poor village of its idiot since 1981 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:37:07 -0700 From: Hugh Daniel Reply-To: hugh@xisp.net To: users@lists.freeswan.org, design@lists.freeswan.org Subject: [Design] FreeS/WAN OLS WAVEsec plans The Linux FreeS/WAN team will be doing several interesting things focused on the OLS conference in Ottawa the week after next. Maybe our primary activity we will be setting up the OLS conference with "WAVEsec" security on the 802.11b (Wi-Fi) for the week. Sometime next week we will ship the freeswan-1.98 release which will not only fix many known bugs but will be able to operate with WAVEsec boxes cleanly (once slightly configured...). If you are going to OLS you might first compile and install 1.98 on your laptop and setup you base dynamic DNS and forward DNS systems with your KEY RR's such that you can assume your home host identity at OLS. Details for much of this are explained on the WAVEsec webpages over at: http://www.wavesec.org/ though we expect that pages to be changing over the week (your help on documentation would be quite valuable, we are quite busy with basic IPsec work already...) as we work out kinks and details. One last note is that we will be running OLS in "infrastructural mode" and not in 'appendix mode' as we have done at previous conferences. We will be helping people setup WAVEsec laptops throughout the week, but if you read up on the website first you can show up and just make you laptop work, securely, from the get go if you have FreeS/WAN and the list already installed! As things get worked out we will post more details to the website. ||ugh Daniel hugh@freeswan.org Systems Testing & Project mis-Management The Linux FreeS/WAN Project http://www.freeswan.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pretty Good Privacy(tm) Version 6.5.8 (c) 1999 Network Associates Inc. Uses the RSAREF(tm) Toolkit, which is copyright RSA Data Security, Inc. Export of this software may be restricted by the U.S. government. File is signed. signature not checked. Signature made 2002/06/14 18:37 GMT key does not meet validity threshold. WARNING: Because this public key is not certified with a trusted signature, it is not known with high confidence that this public key actually belongs to: "(KeyID: 0x7B141411)". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From bryan at edgar.sector14.net Tue Jun 18 10:38:49 2002 From: bryan at edgar.sector14.net (Bryan Halvorson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:08 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] standards and stuff In-Reply-To: <20020618083454.E31580@botwerks.org> from "steve ulrich" at Jun 18, 2002 08:34:54 AM Message-ID: <200206181533.g5IFXDS11394@twenty.sector14.net> steve ulrich wrote: > > when last we saw our hero (Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002), > Jima was madly tapping out: > > On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, steve ulrich wrote: > > > i think that's a nice way to handle the naming of the ssid and the > > > gw addresses. i think that we might want to distribute our dns a > > > bit and we need to make provisions for folks that have dynamic > > > addresses (from cable providers, etc) it might not be a bad thing > > > to either develop tutorials for these users for either doing > > > signed updates (ala bind 9) or wrap a client up that allows them > > > to determine what their external ip is and notify the server(s). > > > > I've hacked together a fairly simple way to do the latter. I've > > had client machines periodically run wget (through cron), hitting a > > CGI script on a web server, which checks the IP (via the > > $REMOTE_ADDR variable) against the IP it has for the hostname > > (specified in the request). If it's the same, nothing happens; if > > it's different, it updates the DNS record. Sample command line: > > > > wget -q -O /dev/null > > "http://dyndns.domain.com/cgi-bin/dyndns.cgi?host=" > > i was thinking of something precisely along these lines. my goal in > having something along these lines is to allow folks who aren't > running a *nix to host nodes which fall into the scheme correctly > while obviating the complexities associated with the signed updates. > > i think that we'd need something with a bit more security to avoid > replay attacks but i think you're dead on here. Bind 8 and 9 support dynamic updates and I think there's a version of bind 9 that will run on NT. If this is the case then NT users can just run nsupdate which will talk directly from the client system to the nameserver and has good security built in. I'm doing this for several people with cable modems on my nameservers. For other people it'd be fairly trivial to write a cgi script that can run on a web server somewhere and can interface with nsupdate. Wget runs on windows and can be used to talk to the cgi script. I know that the latest version of wget talks https but I'm not sure about the windows version I've got. If it does that would take care of most of the security problems. I can provide help with getting dynamic updates working in bind and with the somewhat strange syntax of nsupdate if someone would like it. -- Bryan Halvorson bryan@edgar.sector14.net From troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us Tue Jun 18 10:51:03 2002 From: troy.johnson at health.state.mn.us (Troy.A Johnson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:08 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] free (or at least discounted) stuff Message-ID: Steve, I'd be willing to do a review for a book. Either one would be fine by me. Troy >>> sulrich@botwerks.org 06/18/02 08:09AM >>> all- i received the oreilly and associates care package yesterday and there were a couple of interesting items which i'll place up for grabs. i have plenty of these discount coupons for 20% off of books and oreilly conferences when ordered directly from oreilly and associates. folks who are interested in these can contact me directly and we can hook up to exchange this. there are discount codes and such on it so i won't post these to the list but the info is available on request. i also have the following books which are available to interested parties. a book review (perhaps we can start the library section of the web site) or posting on the list of what you thought of the book would likely go some ways to keeping these books coming from the publisher. qty title ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 building wireless community networks (author: rob flickenger) 1 802.11 wireless networks - the definitive guide (author: matthew s. gast) let me know if you're interested... -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Jun 18 12:19:52 2002 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:08 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] standards and stuff In-Reply-To: <200206181533.g5IFXDS11394@twenty.sector14.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Bryan Halvorson wrote: > Bind 8 and 9 support dynamic updates and I think there's a version of > bind 9 that will run on NT. If this is the case then NT users can just > run nsupdate which will talk directly from the client system to the > nameserver and has good security built in. I'm doing this for several > people with cable modems on my nameservers. Bind 8 supports dynamic updates? I wasn't aware of that. Thanks. > For other people it'd be fairly trivial to write a cgi script that can > run on a web server somewhere and can interface with nsupdate. Wget > runs on windows and can be used to talk to the cgi script. I know that > the latest version of wget talks https but I'm not sure about the > windows version I've got. If it does that would take care of most of the > security problems. That's about what I had in mind, yes. So far all the CGI script I have does is edit some zone files directly (and reload the zone), but there's no reason it couldn't be a midpoint between people without nsupdate, and the DNS server. Carl's machine might be a good staging area for that (thanks Carl!). Anyway, some sort of password authentication could keep troublemakers from changing peoples' DNS bindings. Maybe crypt()ed on the client side, using the hostname as the seed? That or using https. Something like that. > I can provide help with getting dynamic updates working in bind and with > the somewhat strange syntax of nsupdate if someone would like it. I'll get around to it eventually; Nate Carlson posted a mini-howto on the TCLUG list a couple weeks ago. (See: http://archives2.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/2002-June/050969.html) The one thing I learned from someone else who implemented it is to make sure that the clocks on both the client and server are fairly close; NTP comes in handy here. Just throwing out ideas (I don't need 'em). Jima From spencer at autonomous.tv Tue Jun 18 12:24:28 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] standards and stuff In-Reply-To: <20020618093329.G5242@real-time.com> References: <20020618074631.B31580@botwerks.org> <20020618093329.G5242@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020618161124.GG21586@autonomous.tv> On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 09:33:29AM -0500, Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom wrote: > >Since there was some discussion about setting up our own webserver/auth >server/whatever at a co-lo, I went ahead and did it. > >killdeer.tcwug.org [1] > >there is currently *no content* on it; but if/when we'd like our own box for >DNS, authentication, downloads, whatever; there it is. > I have to admit Carl, at first read I was like WTF about the host name. Thanks for including a description :) Thanks for putting the server up! That is the best. I think it would be a great idea to use this box for doing the DNS stuff we are discussing, and whatever other uses why come up with. > >[1] For those not familiar with our birds, a killdeer is a >small-medium sized white and brown bird with three black bands around its >neck. It's cry sounds like 'killdeer! killdeer! killdeer!', hence the name. >I figured bird names would be a good naming scheme for a wireless group's >computers, 'robin' and 'bluejay' were too lame, and the box isn't big >enough to justify 'eagle' or 'thunderbird'. 'killdeer' is the first thing >that came to mind. > >Carl Soderstrom. >-- >Network Engineer >Real-Time Enterprises >www.real-time.com >_______________________________________________ -- --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020618/e2496174/attachment.pgp From natecars at real-time.com Tue Jun 18 12:47:02 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] standards and stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Jima wrote: > I'll get around to it eventually; Nate Carlson posted a mini-howto on > the TCLUG list a couple weeks ago. (See: > http://archives2.real-time.com/pipermail/tclug-list/2002-June/050969.html) I've got a DNS server up and running that supports full dynamic dns updates and such.. I could host any domain there that we'd like ddns running on. Or we can do it on Killdeer, if it's not something we want to spread to the rest of the 'net. > The one thing I learned from someone else who implemented it is to > make sure that the clocks on both the client and server are fairly > close; NTP comes in handy here. Hey, that was me too. :) -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From jima at beer.tclug.org Tue Jun 18 16:39:30 2002 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] standards and stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002, Nate Carlson wrote: > I've got a DNS server up and running that supports full dynamic dns > updates and such.. I could host any domain there that we'd like ddns > running on. Or we can do it on Killdeer, if it's not something we want to > spread to the rest of the 'net. *shrug* Whatever works. > > The one thing I learned from someone else who implemented it is to > > make sure that the clocks on both the client and server are fairly > > close; NTP comes in handy here. > > Hey, that was me too. :) You answered the question when it was asked, yes. You didn't bring it up, though. :P I think maybe I'll try to get that working today. Jima From natecars at real-time.com Tue Jun 18 19:50:23 2002 From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Wellenreiter Message-ID: Just saw this app across freshmeat, anyone played with it? http://www.remote-exploit.org/modules.php?name=Search&query=&topic=2&author= http://freshmeat.net/projects/wellenreiter/?topic_id=20%2C87%2C43%2C136%2C861 -- Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500 From sulrich at botwerks.org Wed Jun 19 00:19:42 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:09 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] a call to limbs ... Message-ID: <20020619001022.A682@botwerks.org> ok - i'm surfacing for air here and i'm wondering what folks are realistically interested in doing. specifically how we plan on attacking some of the problems that we have confronting us and what are people up for tackling? i see that spencer has been quite keen on making some forward movement here and i'd like to support this and hopefully other would like to as well. matthew has done some excellent work with the maps.tcwug.org setup and people have been adding nodes to this which is quite encouraging. given my schedule it's problematic for me to be out in the field testing APs and setting things up but i'd be more than happy to provide some focused energy on development, documentation, design and administravia, items which don't necessarily require considerable quantities of coordinated time. ;-) as i see it we have a number of tasks facing us if we're interested in either the hotspot or overlay mode of operation. i'll detail these below and i'd like to suggest that interested parties start bonding on the elements that interest them and perhaps give a bit of an update on their respective activities at the meeting. thoughts? i'm sure that i've missed elements but breaking these out into bite sized pieces seems like a good place to start. - evangelism - if we're going to make this work in any fashion we need to get the word out to folks. perhaps we want to brainstorm ideas for getting more people involved. more people means more APs and more opportunities for creating links - common authentication infrastructure - karl has offered a server to handle some of the elements associated with creating a common authentication infrastructure. i suggest interested parties start hammering out designs for this element - turnkey solutions - there's been a bit of chatter on #tcwug regarding cheap APs. pehaps we should write some documentation regarding the sane setup and configuration of some of these platforms to assist newbies. additionally, we might want to come up with some reference configurations which address the concerns of abuse. - administrative elements - bob mentioned that much of the work that was done investigating the tclug non-profit status would be applicable to tcwug. business minded folks might be able to provide some real insights here and steer us in a good direction. in looking at the efforts of other wireless groups around the country there look to be some interesting twists on the options available to folks. - some of this work would likely entail managing fundraising efforts to facilitate the growth of the network if that's what people are intersted in ... - site surveys and installation - it might be good to get a team together to investigate the options for linking different nodes together and/or coming up with hub sites which several users can reach if they can't reach each other. i'm thinking of folks scouting out tall buildings here ... these are some of the items that i think we might benefit ourselves in dividing up and tackling as people have resources, time and inclination. thoughts? -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From chrome at real-time.com Wed Jun 19 10:59:52 2002 From: chrome at real-time.com (Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:09 2005 Subject: authentication mechanisms (was: Re: [TCWUG] a call to limbs ...) In-Reply-To: <20020619001022.A682@botwerks.org>; from sulrich@botwerks.org on Wed, Jun 19, 2002 at 12:10:22AM -0500 References: <20020619001022.A682@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <20020619104846.F27126@real-time.com> > - common authentication infrastructure - karl has offered a server to > handle some of the elements associated with creating a common > authentication infrastructure. i suggest interested parties start > hammering out designs for this element let's start by asking the fundamental question of 'what are we trying to do here?' possible answers that have been discussed: - roaming NoCatAuth authentication: if NoCatAuth admins subscribe to a centralized authentication service, users who register with that service can go to NoCatAuth nodes that subscribe to the service, and get connectivity. - simple dynamic DNS, using wget and a CGI - 'real' DDNS, with BIND 9 all of the above could be done, no problem. the first two, are the sort of thing that killdeer.tcwug.org was intended for. the last one, Nate Carlson has generously offered to host on his own DNS server. I judge that to be a superior idea to using killdeer.tcwug.org; tho killdeer could be used as a secondary DNS server. (considering that they're in the same rack, and share the same UPS and hub, the value of that is a bit dubious, tho). are there any other ideas that I have missed? Carl Soderstrom. -- Network Engineer Real-Time Enterprises www.real-time.com From sulrich at botwerks.org Wed Jun 19 21:58:56 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:09 2005 Subject: authentication mechanisms (was: Re: [TCWUG] a call to limbs ...) In-Reply-To: <20020619104846.F27126@real-time.com> References: <20020619001022.A682@botwerks.org> <20020619104846.F27126@real-time.com> Message-ID: <20020619215820.A3603@botwerks.org> when last we saw our hero (Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002), Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom was madly tapping out: > > - common authentication infrastructure - karl has offered a server to > > handle some of the elements associated with creating a common > > authentication infrastructure. i suggest interested parties start > > hammering out designs for this element > > let's start by asking the fundamental question of 'what are we trying to do > here?' i think that the basic goal here is to provide an authentication mechanism that folks within the group can use to determine who they want to share access with. additionally, i think that it makes a lot of sense to provide simple things like dns for these nodes to unify the infrastructure. > > possible answers that have been discussed: > - roaming NoCatAuth authentication: if NoCatAuth admins subscribe to a > centralized authentication service, users who register with that service > can go to NoCatAuth nodes that subscribe to the service, and get > connectivity. this is what i was referring to regarding the authentication side of things. > - simple dynamic DNS, using wget and a CGI > - 'real' DDNS, with BIND 9 the management of dns is largely tangential to this but key nonetheless. looks like another element for attention as well. > > all of the above could be done, no problem. > > the first two, are the sort of thing that killdeer.tcwug.org was intended for. > > the last one, Nate Carlson has generously offered to host on his own DNS > server. I judge that to be a superior idea to using killdeer.tcwug.org; tho > killdeer could be used as a secondary DNS server. (considering that they're > in the same rack, and share the same UPS and hub, the value of that is a bit > dubious, tho). i have a couple machine that can be secondary dns servers. my home network has a couple of machine which i can segment for this and i have machines scattered in colocation facilities around the country which can be used for this purpose as well. i don't think that we're at a loss for this type of capacity. i think that anything we do should be hosted in several locations. i'm a big fan of redundancy in this type of application. > > are there any other ideas that I have missed? > -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From goober at schulte.org Wed Jun 19 23:53:11 2002 From: goober at schulte.org (Alex Hartman) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:09 2005 Subject: authentication mechanisms (was: Re: [TCWUG] a call to limbs ...) References: <20020619001022.A682@botwerks.org> <20020619104846.F27126@real-time.com> <20020619215820.A3603@botwerks.org> Message-ID: <000901c21814$ddb144f0$0100a8c0@jennifer> ---- Original Message ----- From: "steve ulrich" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 9:58 PM Subject: Re: authentication mechanisms (was: Re: [TCWUG] a call to limbs ...) > when last we saw our hero (Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002), > Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom was madly tapping out: > > > - common authentication infrastructure - karl has offered a server to > > > handle some of the elements associated with creating a common > > > authentication infrastructure. i suggest interested parties start > > > hammering out designs for this element > > > > let's start by asking the fundamental question of 'what are we trying to do > > here?' > > i think that the basic goal here is to provide an authentication > mechanism that folks within the group can use to determine who they > want to share access with. > > additionally, i think that it makes a lot of sense to provide simple > things like dns for these nodes to unify the infrastructure. > > well, what're they authenticating to? the hotspot or the infrastructure? if it's the hotspot, just run somthing like wingate and audit everything that comes through the air... if you're a unix nut, run ipchains/tables/ipf/pf/whatever you prefer. I think it'd be a good idea to start creating some subdomains for those of us with hotspots up in the air already. However, the naming scheme i don't think has been resolved. Mine at home is public.wireless.goobe.net - ssid of goobenet-tcwug (for the public side). not quite sure how to tackle this one, but if you have your own domain, i'd like to suggest my scheme. "domain-tcwug" (minus punctuation) foocom-tcwug, botwerksorg-tcwug (some might be too long). Just and idea. Also, i've seen AP's that broadcast "information" packets, i'm investigating how to put a "welcome" message in the air about mine, making some kind of refrence to AUP, yadda yadda yadda... > > > > > possible answers that have been discussed: > > - roaming NoCatAuth authentication: if NoCatAuth admins subscribe to a > > centralized authentication service, users who register with that service > > can go to NoCatAuth nodes that subscribe to the service, and get > > connectivity. > > this is what i was referring to regarding the authentication side of > things. > > > > - simple dynamic DNS, using wget and a CGI > > - 'real' DDNS, with BIND 9 > > the management of dns is largely tangential to this but key > nonetheless. looks like another element for attention as well. > http://www.dnstools.com/ Been looking at web based stuff for a friend of mine up here at college, so far, this one seems more or less sane to me... don't have a unix box up here running yet, but i'm gonna investigate this one a bit more. > > > > all of the above could be done, no problem. > > > > the first two, are the sort of thing that killdeer.tcwug.org was intended for. > > > > the last one, Nate Carlson has generously offered to host on his own DNS > > server. I judge that to be a superior idea to using killdeer.tcwug.org; tho > > killdeer could be used as a secondary DNS server. (considering that they're > > in the same rack, and share the same UPS and hub, the value of that is a bit > > dubious, tho). > > i have a couple machine that can be secondary dns servers. my home > network has a couple of machine which i can segment for this and i > have machines scattered in colocation facilities around the country > which can be used for this purpose as well. > > i don't think that we're at a loss for this type of capacity. i think > that anything we do should be hosted in several locations. i'm a big > fan of redundancy in this type of application. > > > > > > > are there any other ideas that I have missed? > > > > -- > steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org > PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > Again, my $.02 :) -- Alex Hartman - goober@goobe.net PGP Key fingerprint = 26 41 19 56 19 81 E2 BC EE C8 1D F4 DB B8 ED B8 "All in all is all we all are..." -Kurt Cobain RIP 1967-1994 From spencer at autonomous.tv Thu Jun 20 00:44:10 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:09 2005 Subject: authentication mechanisms (was: Re: [TCWUG] a call to limbs ...) In-Reply-To: <000901c21814$ddb144f0$0100a8c0@jennifer> References: <20020619001022.A682@botwerks.org> <20020619104846.F27126@real-time.com> <20020619215820.A3603@botwerks.org> <000901c21814$ddb144f0$0100a8c0@jennifer> Message-ID: <20020620053403.GC26407@autonomous.tv> On Wed, Jun 19, 2002 at 11:42:20PM -0500, Alex Hartman wrote: >---- Original Message ----- >From: "steve ulrich" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 9:58 PM >Subject: Re: authentication mechanisms (was: Re: [TCWUG] a call to limbs >...) > > >> when last we saw our hero (Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002), >> Carl Wilhelm Soderstrom was madly tapping out: >> > > - common authentication infrastructure - karl has offered a server to >> > > handle some of the elements associated with creating a common >> > > authentication infrastructure. i suggest interested parties start >> > > hammering out designs for this element >> > >> > let's start by asking the fundamental question of 'what are we trying to >do >> > here?' I want wireless inet access wherever I go in the twin cities. That is my bottom line. (ATM that is ;)) >> >> i think that the basic goal here is to provide an authentication >> mechanism that folks within the group can use to determine who they >> want to share access with. I believe strongly in karma. However, if someone starts to take advantage I certainly want to be holding the appropriate switches. >> >> additionally, i think that it makes a lot of sense to provide simple >> things like dns for these nodes to unify the infrastructure. >> >> > >well, what're they authenticating to? the hotspot or the infrastructure? if >it's the hotspot, just run somthing like wingate and audit everything that >comes through the air... if you're a unix nut, run >ipchains/tables/ipf/pf/whatever you prefer. mmmm unix nuts mmmm > >I think it'd be a good idea to start creating some subdomains for those of >us with hotspots up in the air already. However, the naming scheme i don't >think has been resolved. Mine at home is public.wireless.goobe.net - ssid of >goobenet-tcwug (for the public side). not quite sure how to tackle this one, >but if you have your own domain, i'd like to suggest my scheme. >"domain-tcwug" (minus punctuation) foocom-tcwug, botwerksorg-tcwug (some >might be too long). Just and idea. Also, i've seen AP's that broadcast I fully agree. We need to come to an agreement for a naming scheme. >"information" packets, i'm investigating how to put a "welcome" message in >the air about mine, making some kind of refrence to AUP, yadda yadda >yadda... > Very interesting. I have not run into this. I would love to send out personalized beacons. You could put our disclaimers and what not. (To head off legal ramifications ie. the "slimeball" spammer syndrome) >> >> > >> > possible answers that have been discussed: >> > - roaming NoCatAuth authentication: if NoCatAuth admins subscribe to a >> > centralized authentication service, users who register with that >service >> > can go to NoCatAuth nodes that subscribe to the service, and get >> > connectivity. >> >> this is what i was referring to regarding the authentication side of >> things. I, personally, am more concerned with topology, effeciency, and overall ease of use than authentication. Then again, I am a bit of an *shudder* anarchist. >> >> >> > - simple dynamic DNS, using wget and a CGI >> > - 'real' DDNS, with BIND 9 >> >> the management of dns is largely tangential to this but key >> nonetheless. looks like another element for attention as well. >> > I think we are smart enough as a whole to implement an intelligent DNS solution. >http://www.dnstools.com/ > >Been looking at web based stuff for a friend of mine up here at college, so >far, this one seems more or less sane to me... don't have a unix box up here >running yet, but i'm gonna investigate this one a bit more. > >> > >> > all of the above could be done, no problem. problem? what problem? ;) >> > >> > the first two, are the sort of thing that killdeer.tcwug.org was >intended for. >> > >> > the last one, Nate Carlson has generously offered to host on his own DNS >> > server. I judge that to be a superior idea to using killdeer.tcwug.org; >tho >> > killdeer could be used as a secondary DNS server. (considering that >they're >> > in the same rack, and share the same UPS and hub, the value of that is a >bit >> > dubious, tho). You guys crack me up. >> >> i have a couple machine that can be secondary dns servers. my home >> network has a couple of machine which i can segment for this and i >> have machines scattered in colocation facilities around the country >> which can be used for this purpose as well. >> >> i don't think that we're at a loss for this type of capacity. i think >> that anything we do should be hosted in several locations. i'm a big >> fan of redundancy in this type of application. >> >> >> >> > >> > are there any other ideas that I have missed? Mission Statement. Does anyone have any ideas for formulating a Mission statement? I for one feel this is of the utmost importance. If we do indeed plan on filing for non-profit status (big fan of this) we will _have_ to have a mission statement. I know this is a "touchy" subject with some of you, since we are still not all in agreement as to what we are doing and how we plan to achieve what we don't agree on (that makes little sense ,eh?). As we build our network we must also build our organization. I believe the two go hand in hand. Bob has graciously offered us access to the work he has already done with the tclug non-profit paper work. I suggest we move forward with this. I talked to my boss this evening, he is interested in forming a relationship with the tcwug on a corp to corp level. Arnan Services Inc. is a local engineering firm that specializes in telecommunications. (this is the company I work for) We have a few radio links up in the twin cities, some of which have been up for over 2 years. We are expanding our wireless network at a steady pace. I believe, and have conveyed to my boss, that Arnan and the tcwug may share some common interest. Steve has already "befriended" O'reily in the name of the tcwug. The concept of corporate sponsoroship is one that should not be overlooked. Again, a mission statement would help us to clarify what we want to do and who we want to do it with. I for one, as I have already stated, really just want to 1) have fun 2) make friends/connections 3) have ubiquitous inet access. >> > >> >> -- >> steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org >> PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC > >Again, my $.02 :) > >-- >Alex Hartman - goober@goobe.net >PGP Key fingerprint = 26 41 19 56 19 81 E2 BC EE C8 1D F4 DB B8 ED B8 >"All in all is all we all are..." -Kurt Cobain RIP 1967-1994 > -- --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020620/1184c0e4/attachment.pgp From dante at plethora.net Thu Jun 20 22:26:46 2002 From: dante at plethora.net (Daniel Taylor) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: authentication mechanisms (was: Re: [TCWUG] a call to limbs ...) In-Reply-To: <20020620053403.GC26407@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, SpencerUnderground wrote: > Mission Statement. > Does anyone have any ideas for formulating a Mission > statement? I for one feel this is of the utmost importance. If we do This is indeed necessary. > indeed plan on filing for non-profit status (big fan of this) we will > _have_ to have a mission statement. I know this is a "touchy" subject > with some of you, since we are still not all in agreement as to what we > are doing and how we plan to achieve what we don't agree on (that makes > little sense ,eh?). As we build our network we must also build our > organization. I believe the two go hand in hand. Bob has graciously > offered us access to the work he has already done with the tclug > non-profit paper work. I suggest we move forward with this. > > I talked to my boss this evening, he is interested in forming a > relationship with the tcwug on a corp to corp level. Arnan Services > Inc. is a local engineering firm that specializes in telecommunications. > (this is the company I work for) We have a few radio links up in the > twin cities, some of which have been up for over 2 years. We are > expanding our wireless network at a steady pace. I believe, and have > conveyed to my boss, that Arnan and the tcwug may share some common > interest. > > Steve has already "befriended" O'reily in the name of the tcwug. The > concept of corporate sponsoroship is one that should not be overlooked. > Again, a mission statement would help us to clarify what we want to do > and who we want to do it with. I for one, as I have already stated, > really just want to 1) have fun 2) make friends/connections 3) have > ubiquitous inet access. I could agree with all three points. As far as concerns that were raised at the meeting regarding people's persistance of resources: How about we set up the net access as a co-op service, with tiered pricing depending upon level of participation and cost to maintain the network. As long as we have the ability to restrict access, we can deal with the evil spammer issues on a case by case basis. Note that the co-op setup does allow the WUG to purchase bandwidth to merge the wireless network with the Internet (per Andy's concerns among others). -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net From bneigebauer at attbi.com Fri Jun 21 00:20:28 2002 From: bneigebauer at attbi.com (Ben Neigebauer) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: authentication mechanisms (was: Re: [TCWUG] a call to limbs ...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not that anyone cares, but I spent two years of my life helping design QoS software. I know a bit about queueing on Cisco routers, Linux machines etc. I bet I could make a way to limit bandwidth to a login an make it so they don't hog the whole bit. -----Original Message----- From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On Behalf Of Daniel Taylor Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 8:43 AM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: authentication mechanisms (was: Re: [TCWUG] a call to limbs ...) On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, SpencerUnderground wrote: > Mission Statement. > Does anyone have any ideas for formulating a Mission > statement? I for one feel this is of the utmost importance. If we do This is indeed necessary. > indeed plan on filing for non-profit status (big fan of this) we will > _have_ to have a mission statement. I know this is a "touchy" subject > with some of you, since we are still not all in agreement as to what we > are doing and how we plan to achieve what we don't agree on (that makes > little sense ,eh?). As we build our network we must also build our > organization. I believe the two go hand in hand. Bob has graciously > offered us access to the work he has already done with the tclug > non-profit paper work. I suggest we move forward with this. > > I talked to my boss this evening, he is interested in forming a > relationship with the tcwug on a corp to corp level. Arnan Services > Inc. is a local engineering firm that specializes in telecommunications. > (this is the company I work for) We have a few radio links up in the > twin cities, some of which have been up for over 2 years. We are > expanding our wireless network at a steady pace. I believe, and have > conveyed to my boss, that Arnan and the tcwug may share some common > interest. > > Steve has already "befriended" O'reily in the name of the tcwug. The > concept of corporate sponsoroship is one that should not be overlooked. > Again, a mission statement would help us to clarify what we want to do > and who we want to do it with. I for one, as I have already stated, > really just want to 1) have fun 2) make friends/connections 3) have > ubiquitous inet access. I could agree with all three points. As far as concerns that were raised at the meeting regarding people's persistance of resources: How about we set up the net access as a co-op service, with tiered pricing depending upon level of participation and cost to maintain the network. As long as we have the ability to restrict access, we can deal with the evil spammer issues on a case by case basis. Note that the co-op setup does allow the WUG to purchase bandwidth to merge the wireless network with the Internet (per Andy's concerns among others). -- Daniel Taylor dante@plethora.net _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.371 / Virus Database: 206 - Release Date: 6/13/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.371 / Virus Database: 206 - Release Date: 6/13/2002 From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Jun 24 12:08:55 2002 From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: authentication mechanisms (was: Re: [TCWUG] a call to limbs ...) In-Reply-To: References: <20020620053403.GC26407@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20020624105849.A1435@botwerks.org> ok - surfacing for air and some sidelined discussion ... comments inline. when last we saw our hero (Thursday, Jun 20, 2002), Daniel Taylor was madly tapping out: > On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, SpencerUnderground wrote: > > > Mission Statement. > > Does anyone have any ideas for formulating a Mission statement? I > > for one feel this is of the utmost importance. If we do > > This is indeed necessary. this is a topic that i've studiously avoided to date. however it does bear discussion. what do we want to do and what services (if any) would we like to offer? in my initial missive i was curious to see what elements people where willing to sink their teeth into and see what people were interested in. there seems to be a fair amount of interest in the hot spot deployments since these appear to be realistically attainable goals. in looking at the maps that are online i see that we're really spread out all over the place. perhaps our efforts are most effectively expended helping folks get as many nodes as possible online and improving our odds for connecting the dots. the geography of the cities is rather daunting for our application. personally - i'd like to have internet access (tunneled or not) from a really wide range of locations. corner coffee shops, restaurants, parks, etc. i'd like to see an overlay network take off and would be willing to devote my energies to attaining that goal. however, i must say at this point (and after puttering with some map information) it's not looking too good. > > > indeed plan on filing for non-profit status (big fan of this) we > > will _have_ to have a mission statement. I know this is a > > "touchy" subject with some of you, since we are still not all in > > agreement as to what we are doing and how we plan to achieve what > > we don't agree on (that makes little sense ,eh?). As we build our > > network we must also build our organization. I believe the two go > > hand in hand. Bob has graciously offered us access to the work he > > has already done with the tclug non-profit paper work. I suggest > > we move forward with this. > > > > I talked to my boss this evening, he is interested in forming a > > relationship with the tcwug on a corp to corp level. Arnan > > Services Inc. is a local engineering firm that specializes in > > telecommunications. (this is the company I work for) We have a > > few radio links up in the twin cities, some of which have been up > > for over 2 years. We are expanding our wireless network at a > > steady pace. I believe, and have conveyed to my boss, that Arnan > > and the tcwug may share some common interest. i think that there are a variety of models that could be worked out here to make the group mesh up with various elements within the community. - we may want to see about establishing relationships with friendly local ISPs toward this. - cookbook configurations would go a long ways towards helping as many people get working configurations that minimize the abuse potential. - i know that i'm not at all averse to working with businesses in furthering these goals. i would hope that others are as well. the nycwireless folks have some interesting liasons that they've setups with local businesses in order to facilitate the introduction of their nodes and get folks setup. we might want to steal a page or two from their playbook in this regard. > > Steve has already "befriended" O'reily in the name of the tcwug. > > The concept of corporate sponsoroship is one that should not be > > overlooked. Again, a mission statement would help us to clarify > > what we want to do and who we want to do it with. I for one, as I > > have already stated, really just want to 1) have fun 2) make > > friends/connections 3) have ubiquitous inet access. > > I could agree with all three points. > > As far as concerns that were raised at the meeting regarding > people's persistance of resources: > > How about we set up the net access as a co-op service, with tiered > pricing depending upon level of participation and cost to maintain > the network. > > As long as we have the ability to restrict access, we can deal with > the evil spammer issues on a case by case basis. > > Note that the co-op setup does allow the WUG to purchase bandwidth > to merge the wireless network with the Internet (per Andy's concerns > among others). -- steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC From leaf at real-time.com Tue Jun 25 13:16:08 2002 From: leaf at real-time.com (Rick Tanner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Article: why you should secure your wireless LAN Message-ID: Network Security Basics: Tightening Down Your Wireless LAN http://networking.earthweb.com/netsecur/article/0,,12084_1369391,00.html I thought this article provided a pretty good explanation and reason for securing one's wireless LAN. Especially this statement, "Who could possibly be interested in my data anyway? Hackers, maybe, but never underestimate the amount of mischief that a local bored teenager can create." A rather non-technical article aimed at the home user. The article covers more of what you should do and why. - Rick Tanner leaf(at)real-time.com -- From zamsler at amcscentral.net Wed Jun 26 00:49:54 2002 From: zamsler at amcscentral.net (Zac Amsler) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Maps.. Message-ID: <002c01c21cd4$08b59e80$1e98a041@vaio> In regards to http://maps.tcwug.org Could someone please tell me why certain subnets are redirected to the eggdrop website? When I am at home I get sent to the eggdrop download page. I already have eggdrop running on my IRC server, and I do not need it anymore. The funny thing is that I can access maps from my office. I think this is really funny. I guess I am going to have to spoof my ip address to utilize something that was intendedfor everyone.. Games, Games, Games. You all have a good night. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020626/2011bc19/attachment.htm From nryberg at uspsoig.gov Wed Jun 26 08:28:02 2002 From: nryberg at uspsoig.gov (nryberg@uspsoig.gov) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: authentication mechanisms (was: Re: [TCWUG] a call to limbs . ..) Message-ID: <63B474C9AD27D411936400508BACF93018A8F1@POPEYE> Maybe we could post some sort of usage guide on the website for potential TCWUG mailing list subscribers. As the audience for users widens out from the hardcore engineer/*nux original subscribers who pretty much understand without being told that all e-mail should be text only, I'm afraid that we're going to see more and more HTML based e-mails. My thought is that to achieve some sort of critical mass for wireless access points, whatever the ultimate architecture may be, we're going to have to be willing to help some pretty rank newbies get into the list, so to speak. - Nick Ryberg Zac said: In regards to http://maps.tcwug.org Could someone please tell me why certain subnets are redirected to the eggdrop website? When I am at home I get sent to the eggdrop download page. I already have eggdrop running on my IRC server, and I do not need it anymore. From jima at beer.tclug.org Wed Jun 26 16:00:14 2002 From: jima at beer.tclug.org (Jima) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Maps.. In-Reply-To: <002c01c21cd4$08b59e80$1e98a041@vaio> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Zac Amsler wrote: > In regards to http://maps.tcwug.org Could someone please tell me why > certain subnets are redirected to the eggdrop website? Because the eggdrop site is hosted on the same box. I'm not sure why (not my system), but I'd suspect some sort of virtual host/HTTP 1.1 compliance problem. What browser/release are you using when this happens? Jima From simeonuj at indivisuallearning.com Wed Jun 26 17:47:27 2002 From: simeonuj at indivisuallearning.com (Simeon Johnston) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Maps.. References: Message-ID: <3D1A395A.1040301@indivisuallearning.com> I have the same problem. The most recent was using Mozilla (Mac or PC). Also doesn't work w/ IE 5.5 on windows or IE 5 on Mac. The most irritating thing is that it downloads it everytime I try. Very irritating.... sim From chrise at pobox.com Fri Jun 28 20:30:44 2002 From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Cable Firms Limit User's Freedoms Message-ID: <20020628202814.E24188@n0jcf.net> Don't miss this on Slashdot this evening: http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/28/2011241.shtml?tid=95 "TWC sent nastygrams to people it suspects are using unsecured wireless networks, skimming the info from the publi database of wireless access points." Chris -- Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Jun 28 21:04:44 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Cable Firms Limit User's Freedoms (Read this if you plan on participating on maps.tcwug.org) In-Reply-To: <20020628202814.E24188@n0jcf.net>; from chrise@pobox.com on Fri, Jun 28, 2002 at 08:28:14PM -0500 References: <20020628202814.E24188@n0jcf.net> Message-ID: <20020628205456.T17683@techmonkeys.org> With this happening, and other issues I've had with a certain wireless ISP continually attempting to mirror the entire site, along with a members of tcwug expressing concerns about random users being able to find their home address, http://maps.tcwug.org will be moving to username/password based authentication. I had planned on doing this to a lesser degree for node editing but at this point I'm simply going to lock the entire site down. So, at this point I'm going to ask that people wanting to participate e-mail me a username/password (username being your email address), MAKE SURE THE PASSWORD IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU VALUE, not only will I have this password, but for the time being it will be sent in plain text to the server for HTTP auth. Feel free to PGP encrypt your message to me, my key is in my sig below. At a later date there will be a page (https) that you can change this password at, which will integrate with a NoCatAuth database for authentication. If you're using the wireless ISP that's currently abusing the network that maps.tcwug.org runs on, you will not be granted access at this time, I apologize. (No, it's not Implex) Thanks. On Fri, Jun 28, 2002 at 08:28:14PM -0500, Chris Elmquist wrote: > Don't miss this on Slashdot this evening: > > http://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/28/2011241.shtml?tid=95 > > "TWC sent nastygrams to people it suspects are using unsecured wireless > networks, skimming the info from the publi database of wireless access > points." > > Chris > > -- > Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From chrise at pobox.com Fri Jun 28 21:35:24 2002 From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Wireless ISPs in Twin Cities? Message-ID: <20020628213117.H24188@n0jcf.net> Do we have any active wireless ISPs running in the Twin Cities? I have noticed (over the past few months) more and more small patch antennas showing up at the top of 10 or 15' masts on the roofs of office buildings and other sites around town. One in particular I had noticed, was recently changed from a patch to a mesh dish. Crude triangulation, suggests they are pointing at downtown Minneapolis. Chris -- Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise From poptix at techmonkeys.org Fri Jun 28 21:56:16 2002 From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Wireless ISPs in Twin Cities? In-Reply-To: <20020628213117.H24188@n0jcf.net>; from chrise@pobox.com on Fri, Jun 28, 2002 at 09:31:17PM -0500 References: <20020628213117.H24188@n0jcf.net> Message-ID: <20020628215351.U17683@techmonkeys.org> Implex, www.implex.net they were at Strictly Business and I think a couple of the guys might either be here or on the tclug list, pretty good guys IMO. On Fri, Jun 28, 2002 at 09:31:17PM -0500, Chris Elmquist wrote: > Do we have any active wireless ISPs running in the Twin Cities? > > I have noticed (over the past few months) more and more small patch > antennas showing up at the top of 10 or 15' masts on the roofs of > office buildings and other sites around town. One in particular > I had noticed, was recently changed from a patch to a mesh dish. > > Crude triangulation, suggests they are pointing at downtown Minneapolis. > > Chris > > -- > Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise > _______________________________________________ > Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota > http://www.tcwug.org > tcwug-list@tcwug.org > https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list -- Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203 From chrise at pobox.com Fri Jun 28 23:07:02 2002 From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Wireless ISPs in Twin Cities? In-Reply-To: <20020628215351.U17683@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Fri, Jun 28, 2002 at 09:53:51PM -0500 References: <20020628213117.H24188@n0jcf.net> <20020628215351.U17683@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020628225737.L24188@n0jcf.net> On Friday (06/28/2002 at 09:53PM -0500), Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Implex, www.implex.net they were at Strictly Business and I think > a couple of the guys might either be here or on the tclug list, > pretty good guys IMO. Thanks. I've just written them and volunteered my time to help them bring service to my neighborhood :-) Chris -- Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise From andyw at pobox.com Sat Jun 29 12:26:26 2002 From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Wireless ISPs in Twin Cities? In-Reply-To: <20020628215351.U17683@techmonkeys.org>; from poptix@techmonkeys.org on Fri, Jun 28, 2002 at 09:53:51PM -0500 References: <20020628213117.H24188@n0jcf.net> <20020628215351.U17683@techmonkeys.org> Message-ID: <20020629113128.A8888@florence.linkmargin.com> Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Implex, www.implex.net they were at Strictly Business and I think > a couple of the guys might either be here or on the tclug list, > pretty good guys IMO. If they're on the list then the can correct anything I get wrong, but I think they're on top of the Piper building downtown and run KarlNet (aka orinoco COR/ROR.) I think they have two cells right now and their focus/pricing seems to be business. If you're seeing a lot of residential, there may be another player. -- andyw@pobox.com Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634 From lists at sentrax.org Sat Jun 29 15:52:10 2002 From: lists at sentrax.org (Derek Dolan - Lists) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:10 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Wireless ISPs in Twin Cities? Message-ID: <07C20B9E0B0CAB468B23C90BF9D8407686A0@chronic.gundam-w.net> Talk to Stuart DeVaan at Implex. He's one of the owners. Some of you may also know him from his alter ego as Stuart DeVaan from Savage Aural Hotbed... - Derek -----Original Message----- From: Chris Elmquist [mailto:chrise@pobox.com] Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 10:58 PM To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Wireless ISPs in Twin Cities? On Friday (06/28/2002 at 09:53PM -0500), Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > Implex, www.implex.net they were at Strictly Business and I think a > couple of the guys might either be here or on the tclug list, pretty > good guys IMO. Thanks. I've just written them and volunteered my time to help them bring service to my neighborhood :-) Chris -- Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise _______________________________________________ Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list From spencer at autonomous.tv Sat Jun 29 16:00:34 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:11 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Wireless ISPs in Twin Cities? In-Reply-To: <07C20B9E0B0CAB468B23C90BF9D8407686A0@chronic.gundam-w.net> References: <07C20B9E0B0CAB468B23C90BF9D8407686A0@chronic.gundam-w.net> Message-ID: <20020629210012.GB20779@autonomous.tv> On Sat, Jun 29, 2002 at 03:10:58PM -0500, Derek Dolan - Lists wrote: >Talk to Stuart DeVaan at Implex. He's one of the owners. Some of you >may also know him from his alter ego as Stuart DeVaan from Savage Aural >Hotbed... > Tricky alter ego. ;) >- Derek > >-----Original Message----- >From: Chris Elmquist [mailto:chrise@pobox.com] >Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 10:58 PM >To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org >Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Wireless ISPs in Twin Cities? > > >On Friday (06/28/2002 at 09:53PM -0500), Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: >> Implex, www.implex.net they were at Strictly Business and I think a >> couple of the guys might either be here or on the tclug list, pretty >> good guys IMO. > >Thanks. I've just written them and volunteered my time to help them >bring service to my neighborhood :-) > >Chris > >-- >Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, >Minnesota http://www.tcwug.org tcwug-list@tcwug.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list >_______________________________________________ >Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota >http://www.tcwug.org >tcwug-list@tcwug.org >https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list > -- --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020629/25672ed9/attachment.pgp From spencer at autonomous.tv Sat Jun 29 17:12:11 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:11 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hot spots Message-ID: <20020629220809.GC20779@autonomous.tv> I added a couple of connect the dot lines to the map today. I tried to link to Longfellow from atop my garage, I did not. It is quite hot and I did not stay up there very long. I have yagi I was pointing in that general direction. I can pick it up with a little 2.5db omni in the car all around Longfellow park (mainly the 34th Street side. Jack, we should try and figure something out. -- --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020629/1c7ea501/attachment.pgp From spencer at autonomous.tv Sat Jun 29 17:27:16 2002 From: spencer at autonomous.tv (SpencerUnderground) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:11 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Hot spots In-Reply-To: <20020629220809.GC20779@autonomous.tv> References: <20020629220809.GC20779@autonomous.tv> Message-ID: <20020629222100.GD20779@autonomous.tv> On Sat, Jun 29, 2002 at 05:08:09PM -0500, SpencerUnderground wrote: >I added a couple of connect the dot lines to the map today. > >I tried to link to Longfellow from atop my garage, I did not. It is >quite hot and I did not stay up there very long. I have yagi I was >pointing in that general direction. I can pick it up with a little >2.5db omni in the car all around Longfellow park (mainly the 34th Street >side. > Correction. That was a 7.5db omni with the amp on it. The 2.5 does not fair near as well. I can pick you up on your block and that is about all. There are just sooo many trees between us. >Jack, we should try and figure something out. > >-- > --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- >http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv >Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 > -- --*--SpencerUnderground--*-- http://autonomous.tv/ spencer@autonomous.tv Key fingerprint = 173B 8760 E59F DBF8 6FD2 68F8 ABA2 AB08 49C7 4754 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shadowknight.real-time.com/pipermail/tcwug-list/attachments/20020629/20f17817/attachment.pgp From chrise at pobox.com Sat Jun 29 21:12:18 2002 From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:36:11 2005 Subject: [TCWUG] Wireless ISPs in Twin Cities? In-Reply-To: <20020629113128.A8888@florence.linkmargin.com>; from andyw@pobox.com on Sat, Jun 29, 2002 at 11:31:28AM -0500 References: <20020628213117.H24188@n0jcf.net> <20020628215351.U17683@techmonkeys.org> <20020629113128.A8888@florence.linkmargin.com> Message-ID: <20020629204644.B2708@n0jcf.net> On Saturday (06/29/2002 at 11:31AM -0500), Andy Warner wrote: > Matthew S. Hallacy wrote: > > Implex, www.implex.net they were at Strictly Business and I think > > a couple of the guys might either be here or on the tclug list, > > pretty good guys IMO. > > If they're on the list then the can correct anything I get wrong, > but I think they're on top of the Piper building downtown and run > KarlNet (aka orinoco COR/ROR.) I think they have two cells > right now and their focus/pricing seems to be business. > > If you're seeing a lot of residential, there may be another > player. All of the antennas I have spotted have been on businesses. Alot of them are small-ish 6" or so square patch antennas mounted in a diamond orientation. They look just like the ones I have seen all over the Denver area on residential roofs though. -- Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise